Elon Musk buys and ruins Twitter

[west didsblue]

Finally - your "kompromat" argument - such as it is - fails to explain why Starlink - a Musk-owned company - would continue to supply vital Internet connectivity to Ukraine in spite of its ongoing war against Russia. Dude! - there's zero chance that Starlink would continue to provide Internet service to Ukraine if some sort of effective Russian kompromat against Musk existed.

Whilst Starlink is a Musk controlled company (he owns just under half), it has depended on government handouts and contracts to get where it is, and the US government is still its biggest customer. The government therefore presumably has significant influence in getting them to provide the service to Ukraine.

I have no evidence of this but it wouldn’t surprise me if Ukraine’s military communications via Starlink somehow find their way to Russia.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Musk is a wrong’un. If you seek to defend him in any way shape or form the odds are you’re a wrong’un as well.

Agree with the wrong'un. He's a ****.

On the other hand, the truth FUCKING MATTERS.

Let substantiated, provable claims against Musk carry the way.

At the same time, I, among others, stand ready to challenge unsubstantiated claims either for or against my personal preferences; otherwise, there's zero chance of knowing truth from falsehood.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I have no evidence of this but it wouldn’t surprise me if Ukraine’s military communications via Starlink somehow find their way to Russia.

While this is possible, it's pure speculation. That you've stated you have no evidence for this is credit to you.

Next step - if what you suppose - Starlink communications are available to Russia - then what follows from your supposition. You'll quickly realize that your supposition - via critical thinking - is most likely false.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Whilst Starlink is a Musk controlled company (he owns just under half), it has depended on government handouts and contracts to get where it is, and the US government is still its biggest customer. The government therefore presumably has significant influence in getting them to provide the service to Ukraine.

I have no evidence of this but it wouldn’t surprise me if Ukraine’s military communications via Starlink somehow find their way to Russia.

I think his comments, especially about Starlink operations in Ukraine not occurring if Musk was a Russian asset, shows a substantial ignorance of how covert warfare works. Which calls in to question his entire belligerent take regarding Musk not being a Russian asset.

If you want to be taken seriously in a covert warfare and security threat debate, you need to have basic understanding of the subject.

 

[SWP's back]

While this is possible, it's pure speculation. That you've stated you have no evidence for this is credit to you.

Next step - if what you suppose - Starlink communications are available to Russia - then what follows from your supposition. You'll quickly realize that your supposition - via critical thinking - is most likely false.

Weird hill to die on.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Very little of what you have just said actually makes sense when any sort of scrutiny is applied, including the farcical assertion that Starlink would not operate in Ukraine if Musk was a Russian asset, which shows you really have no idea how covert information warfare works. Captured assets being employed in hostile territory is literally the bread and butter of covert operations; see the Israeli pager bombings and the current us of X across the world for recent examples. Starlink operating in Ukraine would be a huge advantage for Putin, as he could have access to data and communications, without Ukraine being aware of that.

I think it is clear, given you refuse to acknowledge statements you have made are patently false (“little-to-no-downsides” being just one that makes absolutely no sense), reject credible reports supporting my claims, and just want to shout ignorant nonsense, that you just don’t want to admit you are (or could be) wrong, and instead want to double down.

And if you genuinely think various intelligence agencies (and the Pentagon) are not monitoring and/or investigating Musk’s connections and increasing interactions with Putin, in violation of sanctions and his security clearance, then I have a bit of historical infrastructure in the tristate area that I would love to sell you.

I think it is safe to say we should probably put each other on ignore at this point.

If you wish to abandon contact with me - so be it.

Your entire post above smacks more of the same - belittle - however you can - any voice in opposition to your posts.

I'm on your side - politically.

But at the same time, I give you zero license to engage in unfounded conspiracy - which is what you've done.

That you throw into the mix, ad hominem, as an appeal to your position - just lessens your credibility.

Put me on ignore if you will - I won't put you on ignore, however. Your questionable claims - even in support of my beliefs - need to be challenged - otherwise - you and I are no better than MAGA, for which truth does not matter a whit.

I challenge you because I do not believe that you've made the case that your claims are truthful - my challenge is completely independent of my own political leanings.

If we can't establish fact, then we can't make rational decisions. Your recent posts about Russian kompromat against Musk do not at all make the threshold of "fact." Your claims may ultimately prove true - I do not rule this out - but at present, I've no reason to believe your claims, exactly as I've no reason to believe that Earth is 1000 years old - both claims seem to be 100% FUCKING FLASE.

 

[west didsblue]

If you wish to abandon contact with me - so be it.

Your entire post above smacks more of the same - belittle - however you can - any voice in opposition to your posts.

I'm on your side - politically.

But at the same time, I give you zero license to engage in unfounded conspiracy - which is what you've done.

That you throw into the mix, ad hominem, as an appeal to your position - just lessens your credibility.

Put me on ignore if you will - I won't put you on ignore, however. Your questionable claims - even in support of my beliefs - need to be challenged - otherwise - you and I are no better than MAGA, for which truth does not matter a whit.

I challenge you because I do not believe that you've made the case that your claims are truthful - my challenge is completely independent of my own political leanings.

If we can't establish fact, then we can't make rational decisions. Your recent posts about Russian kompromat against Musk do not at all make the threshold of "fact." Your claims may ultimately prove true - I do not rule this out - but at present, I've no reason to believe your claims, exactly as I've no reason to believe that Earth is 1000 years old - both claims seem to be 100% FUCKING FLASE.

The fact that Musk has reportedly had regular contact with Putin makes speculation about his intentions and the reasons for it a reasonable thing to discuss and speculate on, and is no way comparable to idiotic conspiracy theories that are totally irrational which is what you’re trying to suggest.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

The fact that Musk has reportedly had regular contact with Putin makes speculation about his intentions and the reasons for it a reasonable thing to discuss and speculate on, and is no way comparable to idiotic conspiracy theories that are totally irrational which is what you’re trying to suggest.

Speculation is fine. Sebastian Blue, however, has elevated Musk's reported interactions with Putin (which are not in dispute) as proof-positive of kompromat. And at that point, Sebastian Blue is a conspiracist, as he makes such claim with zero proof, and, most importantly, with zero backing of the free press. If Musk were actually an obvious pawn of Putin - there would be numerous free press articles about this; moreover, there would be all sorts of legal actions against him from Congress as well as independent actors which would garner even more press.

Again - speculation is fine.

But what Sebastian Blue has done is to lay down what he believes to be unassailable facts. Not a fan of this, but if enough evidence supports this position, well, I guess, somewhat OK.

Instead, there's zero evidence that Russia has komprat against Musk - and, at least for now, I don't think they have.

Whereas, Musk's interactions with Russia seem to be entirely reasonable, if you think that he doesn't care much about anything other than promoting his business.

#Occam's Razor
#Critical Thinking

 

[west didsblue]

Next step - if what you suppose - Starlink communications are available to Russia - then what follows from your supposition. You'll quickly realize that your supposition - via critical thinking - is most likely false.

I don’t see why, but there’s little point pursuing this because the possibilities are endless.

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I don’t see why, but there’s little point pursuing this because the possibilities are endless.

Disagree.
Which makes any absolute statement - such as Sebastian Blue's claim of kompromat against Musk - subject to scrutiny. Where's the proof? How do you account for subsequent actions by Musk?

As defenders of Democracy, we should challenge all claims, even if convenient, if evidence is lacking - "show your proof," if you have doubts.

I've no horse in this race - if Sebastian Blue can support his claim of Russian kompromat against Musk, then I'm willing to take on board new knowledge of this fact.

So far, all I've got is a statement form SB that I do not know what "kompromat" means and a bunch of posts stating that Musk is probably a security risk (with which I agree).