England Thread - 2023/24

[dickie davies]

Still think we are overhyping this 'group of players'. I hear all the time Southgate 'should be winning with this group of players'. Why should he? How many English players get in the French team? How many English players would crack the Spain 2010 team, Brazil in 2002 or Germany in 2014? 2012 Spain had a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta. 2002 Brazil had a front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu and Roberto Carlos as wingbacks. Germany in 2014 were the epitome of German efficiency and power. The current England team and England of the past 4 years isn't anywhere near the caliber of teams to previously win the World Cup.

England are not going to be playing any of those teams (except possibly the current French side)
Very average teams, such as Greece, have won major tournaments.A poor Italy eventually beat England on pens in one final
An England squad that even I could pick would be as good as anything in current international world football.
England needs the coach to extract club performances from the most talented players, not stifle them

 

[BringBackSwales]

Still think we are overhyping this 'group of players'. I hear all the time Southgate 'should be winning with this group of players'. Why should he? How many English players get in the French team? How many English players would crack the Spain 2010 team, Brazil in 2002 or Germany in 2014? 2012 Spain had a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta. 2002 Brazil had a front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu and Roberto Carlos as wingbacks. Germany in 2014 were the epitome of German efficiency and power. The current England team and England of the past 4 years isn't anywhere near the caliber of teams to previously win the World Cup.

Two World Cup semifinals, and one European championship final in which we lost on penalties. Its a decent record. Reality is Southgate could get the bin, and his replacement would struggle to match his achievements, no matter who replaces him.

But we don’t have to beat teams of 13, 21, 9 years ago we have to beat the less capable teams of now. How does the fact that there have been some good teams in the past in any way obscure what a tactically inept loser that Southgate is? You are saying Southgate has done well coming 4th and second; same fucking logic as arsenal having a great season in 22/23, coming SECOND; who is happy coming second? And by the way Waistcoat hasn’t got us to 2 World Cup semi finals

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Still think we are overhyping this 'group of players'. I hear all the time Southgate 'should be winning with this group of players'. Why should he? How many English players get in the French team? How many English players would crack the Spain 2010 team, Brazil in 2002 or Germany in 2014? 2012 Spain had a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta. 2002 Brazil had a front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu and Roberto Carlos as wingbacks. Germany in 2014 were the epitome of German efficiency and power. The current England team and England of the past 4 years isn't anywhere near the caliber of teams to previously win the World Cup.

Two World Cup semifinals, and one European championship final in which we lost on penalties. It’s a decent record. Reality is Southgate could get the bin, and his replacement would struggle to match his achievements, no matter who replaces him.

That doesn’t make any difference to today. None of those teams are around now and there are no teams around as good as them now.

Italy, Holland, Germany and Brazil currently have their worst teams in their history. Spain are okay at the moment but nothing more, even world champions Argentina are just okay but they’re nowhere near as good as those past great teams. There are very few good collections of players in international football these days, yet England are one of them.

Even France who are probably the best around now, would convincingly lose to 1998 France… they lost to today’s not-bad Argentina with an ageing Otamendi at the back and underwhelming midfielders like De Paul.

Plus it’s not that England are overhyped, we had a stronger staring XI in the 00s, but it’s the technical aspect of today’s players. In the past English players couldn’t pass the ball as well as other international teams. Yet today’s academies know how to bring through good technical players who are skilful and good passers of the ball. This isn’t the best England team ever, but it’s the best group of technical players we’ve ever produced.

Also, while it’s not the best England team ever, it’s the best depth of quality in attack, with the standard of quality not dropping off too much the deeper we get, we’ve ever had.

Foden, Grealish, Sterling, Maddison, Saka, Gordon, Bellingham as a supporting cast to Kane should be frightening… but how often have England been frightening in attack despite having that group of players behind him?

But Southgate would rather pick Mount, Henderson, Rashford, Sancho, even Hudson-Odoi, and leave Foden and Grealish on the bench and play against the strengths we have and be defensive minded and try and hold on to 1-0 leads.

 

[citydad]

And all support non-league and lower league clubs, mostly Portsmouth by past observations although I do see a City flag there.

Just on train to Glasgow, having been Poland at weekend for Ukraine game. City have always had good support at England. When we went France 98 World Cup we'd just slipped into Division 3.

 

[Gazza]

Still think we are overhyping this 'group of players'. I hear all the time Southgate 'should be winning with this group of players'. Why should he? How many English players get in the French team? How many English players would crack the Spain 2010 team, Brazil in 2002 or Germany in 2014? 2012 Spain had a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta. 2002 Brazil had a front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu and Roberto Carlos as wingbacks. Germany in 2014 were the epitome of German efficiency and power. The current England team and England of the past 4 years isn't anywhere near the caliber of teams to previously win the World Cup.

Two World Cup semifinals, and one European championship final in which we lost on penalties. Its a decent record. Reality is Southgate could get the bin, and his replacement would struggle to match his achievements, no matter who replaces him.

I wonder if the teams you've mentioned would have been as successful under Southgate's management.

 

[give it to gordon]

‘Speak to Pep’: Gareth Southgate fires back over Phil Foden’s best position

The England manager rejects the idea that the 23-year-old is playing more centrally for Manchester City this season

www.theguardian.com

Southgate is fast becoming top of my knobhead list and that takes some doing !

I'm not a violent man but if I ever met southgate I'll have a right go at the twat. He is fucking clueless Phil is clearly the best if his generation.
Who did Pep turn to to play in the middle in our most important game. Phil yes southgate Phil Foden replaced KDB in centre midfield in the CL final.

My dislike of southgate is growing by the day, he is a spineless fa fucking yes man. He shouldn't be allowed to coach any City players

 

[sh249]

Think a couple of posts above nailed the issue in terms of current frustrations.
I don‘t think this group of players is exceptional compared to previous England squads. Not at all. But we are much stronger relatively - none of the traditional big-hitters look especially good at the moment, and no-one else has come forward and filled that gap. So there‘s a real sense of opportunity that is being squandered.
FWIW I think Southgate did a good job initially - however easy the route to the semi was in 2018, it was still a success. Especially when you look back at the utter shitshows that came before between 2008 and 2016. Getting to the final of the Euros was an achievement, but the writing was on the wall in how he evidently froze and had no idea how to wrest back control of the game. He‘s now outstayed his welcome and should go. The decision to pick Henderson (more so than Maguire) was fucking ludicrous, and then shoehorning Maddison in on the left was plain dumb.

 

[cheekybids]

Still think we are overhyping this 'group of players'. I hear all the time Southgate 'should be winning with this group of players'. Why should he? How many English players get in the French team? How many English players would crack the Spain 2010 team, Brazil in 2002 or Germany in 2014? 2012 Spain had a midfield of Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta. 2002 Brazil had a front three of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu and Roberto Carlos as wingbacks. Germany in 2014 were the epitome of German efficiency and power. The current England team and England of the past 4 years isn't anywhere near the caliber of teams to previously win the World Cup.

Two World Cup semifinals, and one European championship final in which we lost on penalties. Its a decent record. Reality is Southgate could get the bin, and his replacement would struggle to match his achievements, no matter who replaces him.

This was the team that knocked England out. You seriously don’t think England have stronger players than this.

There’s also no way Southgate would have selected Griezmann to play that role if he was in the other dug out.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

‘Speak to Pep’: Gareth Southgate fires back over Phil Foden’s best position

The England manager rejects the idea that the 23-year-old is playing more centrally for Manchester City this season

www.theguardian.com

Southgate is fast becoming top of my knobhead list and that takes some doing !

I'm not a violent man but if I ever met southgate I'll have a right go at the twat. He is fucking clueless Phil is clearly the best if his generation.
Who did Pep turn to to play in the middle in our most important game. Phil yes southgate Phil Foden replaced KDB in centre midfield in the CL final.

My dislike of southgate is growing by the day, he is a spineless fa fucking yes man. He shouldn't be allowed to coach any City players

How about managing your own side Gareth?

Pep has a team full of very talented, well coached individuals. In the England set up, that is categorically not the case, so it doesn't f*cking matter what Pep thinks about where Foden mainly plays for his club side. It's where he would fit best in the National setup, and it isn't coming on as an impact sub in the RM position.

 

[foggy1974]

Think a couple of posts above nailed the issue in terms of current frustrations.
I don‘t think this group of players is exceptional compared to previous England squads. Not at all. But we are much stronger relatively - none of the traditional big-hitters look especially good at the moment, and no-one else has come forward and filled that gap. So there‘s a real sense of opportunity that is being squandered.
FWIW I think Southgate did a good job initially - however easy the route to the semi was in 2018, it was still a success. Especially when you look back at the utter shitshows that came before between 2008 and 2016. Getting to the final of the Euros was an achievement, but the writing was on the wall in how he evidently froze and had no idea how to wrest back control of the game. He‘s now outstayed his welcome and should go. The decision to pick Henderson (more so than Maguire) was fucking ludicrous, and then shoehorning Maddison in on the left was plain dumb.

Isn't that the point about Southgate, that the manager should be able to make the team greater as a whole. Look at what Jack Charlton did with players nowhere near the technical ability of this England team.

Maybe Richards Keys should tell everyone, Southgate needs an attacking coach