Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[Man_City_Loyal]

Thats the theory, but home fans can still hear away fans without being next to them. Plus the interaction from across the ground rather than shouting at the next block may even be an improvement. I wouldn't know but are there grounds where away fans aren’t next to the home fans singers, if there are ,are their atmospheres worse than ours ?

good point

 

[Goaternipple2]

good point

Couldn't be worse

 

[JASR]

They won't put away fans in the south stand. If we want the north stand to be in the home end then moving the away fans around the corner to the East stand would be the only option.

From an armchair perspective, The away fans need to be in the corner of the west and south stand, because they’d not appear on tv. Except when a corner is taken, and the camera shot is into the corner.
It’s a small thing, but it’s always grated on me, watching the away crowd behind the goal (main camera angle) in the south stand. And because of segregation requirements, it clearly shows empty seats. United with their free pass of disregarding rules on sway supporters being on level 1, have the away supporters bottled up in the area I suggest. Can’t remember where the Newcastle away is, but again it’s not visible on tv.
Maybe it’s just my perception, but I’d prefer them to be out of sight, let alone out of earshot

 

[JGL07]

From an armchair perspective, The away fans need to be in the corner of the west and south stand, because they’d not appear on tv. Except when a corner is taken, and the camera shot is into the corner.
It’s a small thing, but it’s always grated on me, watching the away crowd behind the goal (main camera angle) in the south stand. And because of segregation requirements, it clearly shows empty seats. United with their free pass of disregarding rules on sway supporters being on level 1, have the away supporters bottled up in the area I suggest. Can’t remember where the Newcastle away is, but again it’s not visible on tv.
Maybe it’s just my perception, but I’d prefer them to be out of sight, let alone out of earshot

The last time I went to Newcastle my Geordie son-in-law got us tickets in the Gallowgate End. We couldn’t see the City supporters from our seats. We could hear them though!

City were 2-0 up in 10 minutes and won 3-1 thanks to a couple of goals from Tevez, if I recall correctly.

 

[HelloCity]

Thats the theory, but home fans can still hear away fans without being next to them. Plus the interaction from across the ground rather than shouting at the next block may even be an improvement. I wouldn't know but are there grounds where away fans aren’t next to the home fans singers, if there are ,are their atmospheres worse than ours ?

Anfield
Old Trafford
Tottenham Hotspur Stadium
Selhurst Park
Stamford Bridge
Goodison Park
Bramall Lane

You get the picture.

 

[nmc]

From an armchair perspective, The away fans need to be in the corner of the west and south stand, because they’d not appear on tv. Except when a corner is taken, and the camera shot is into the corner.
It’s a small thing, but it’s always grated on me, watching the away crowd behind the goal (main camera angle) in the south stand. And because of segregation requirements, it clearly shows empty seats. United with their free pass of disregarding rules on sway supporters being on level 1, have the away supporters bottled up in the area I suggest. Can’t remember where the Newcastle away is, but again it’s not visible on tv.
Maybe it’s just my perception, but I’d prefer them to be out of sight, let alone out of earshot

At Newcastle its very high up - top tier at the Leazes end of the ground.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Pretty sure Gary Cook commented a few years ago that our season tickets holders average age was significantly the highest in the premier league and we needed to get more kids supporting the club; fucking off the family stand will not help. I think it’s nice to see how many kids in Manchester wear City rather than scum shirts, takes me back to when I was a kid

having a family end where most of the people in it, aren’t kids doesn’t make a difference to that.what made a difference is when kids tickets all around the ground were cheap - meaning the family was irrelevant

 

[Marvin]

I contacted PB about the NS expansion to see if we could get a clarification on the timetable, and criteria for the go ahead. PB's view is that it may need to be financially viable.

If that is the criteria, then how would that be assessed?

Does it mean that the revenue from the stand has to cover the borrowing costs or the potential investment return on £60m (if we assume the construction cost to be £60m because those are Liverpool's cost for their Anfield Rd expansion).

If we add 7500 seats and we fill it with £400 season tickets and allow for £100 Cup ticket revenue per seat then that's £3.75m pa or a return on capital of 6.25%. The capital expenditure would presumably be reflected in an increase in the valuation of the club's stadium in the Fixed assets on the balance sheet.

There are also all kind of intangible financial benefits as well including sponsorship, results, improved player recruitment.

Is this is how it would be assessed then what are we waiting for? 6% covers borrowing costs or current investment returns. I guarantee (not literally!) that City could add 7.500 extra seats if we filled them with £400 season tickets.

Have they done this right? I am guessing on the approach that would be taken.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Rail seating should be put in north stand level 1 and finally give us a proper home end. Move the family stand to tier two.

then we’d have a home end and still have the singing section in the south stand

 

[HelloCity]

Rail seating should be put in north stand level 1 and finally give us a proper home end. Move the family stand to tier two.

then we’d have a home end and still have the singing section in the south stand

The Family Stand is already in tier 2.

 

[Prophet of Doom]

A upsetting as this may be to people, there is no chance of any development to the North Stand any time soon. That ship sailed a long time ago.

We have had the best two seasons we will ever have, and still struggle to fill the stadium for a large majority of games. The idea above that we could sell another 7500 season tickets is in a redeveloped North Stand is simply fantasy, and more empty seats is just not worth the £50-£100m investment.

As some posters have written earlier on this thread, until we get to a stage that every seat is filled for the majority of games including all corporate offerings, then major investment cannot be justified.

There was real momentum at one stage to keep it snowballing, and I'm sure if that had been maintained then work would have already started on the new stand. But that stalled and now we are in the position that nobody could justify creating more seats - especially when the stand will be completed post Pep when who knows what position we will be in.

 

[Danny Hoekman]

A upsetting as this may be to people, there is no chance of any development to the North Stand any time soon. That ship sailed a long time ago.

We have had the best two seasons we will ever have, and still struggle to fill the stadium for a large majority of games. The idea above that we could sell another 7500 season tickets is in a redeveloped North Stand is simply fantasy, and more empty seats is just not worth the £50-£100m investment.

As some posters have written earlier on this thread, until we get to a stage that every seat is filled for the majority of games including all corporate offerings, then major investment cannot be justified.

There was real momentum at one stage to keep it snowballing, and I'm sure if that had been maintained then work would have already started on the new stand. But that stalled and now we are in the position that nobody could justify creating more seats - especially when the stand will be completed post Pep when who knows what position we will be in.

Am I missing something here - "struggle to fill the stadium for a large majority of games"???

 

[JASR]

Am I missing something here - "struggle to fill the stadium for a large majority of games"???

Possibly: 'Nearly enough sell out almost every game, but struggle with some supporters who have paid for their seats to actually use them for every game.'

That's a bit more long winded, albeit accurate.

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

A upsetting as this may be to people, there is no chance of any development to the North Stand any time soon. That ship sailed a long time ago.

We have had the best two seasons we will ever have, and still struggle to fill the stadium for a large majority of games. The idea above that we could sell another 7500 season tickets is in a redeveloped North Stand is simply fantasy, and more empty seats is just not worth the £50-£100m investment.

As some posters have written earlier on this thread, until we get to a stage that every seat is filled for the majority of games including all corporate offerings, then major investment cannot be justified.

There was real momentum at one stage to keep it snowballing, and I'm sure if that had been maintained then work would have already started on the new stand. But that stalled and now we are in the position that nobody could justify creating more seats - especially when the stand will be completed post Pep when who knows what position we will be in.

That's a very appropriate user name by the way :)

I agree as I've pointed out previously that if there were 7500 new cheap seats then thousands would relocate out of more expensive seats. Would those expensive seats fly off the shelves to new seasoncard members? Maybe not.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

That's a very appropriate user name by the way :)

I agree as I've pointed out previously that if there were 7500 new cheap seats then thousands would relocate out of more expensive seats. Would those expensive seats fly off the shelves to new seasoncard members? Maybe not.

There would be some Blues relocating to cheaper seats and others buying season cards to turn up for half a dozen games per season. That said, There would be some Blues / families who have struggled to get season cards, as well, so they would grow the season card base to some degree. The Club has the data on ticket buying patterns amongst fans and mustn’t feel it is worth risking the £60mil plus layout on an expanded North Stand at the moment.

I think the Club need to get a better understanding of why big games like the League Cup Semi Final, Wembley trips and Madrid at home are going to general sale and whether there is an increasing trend for people to pick and choose their games. I think there is a growing group of Blues who have disdain for the administration of our Club and buy their tickets through unofficial sources that makes planning for an expanded ground more difficult.

My own view is that is that work on expanding the a north Stand would have started by now if there hadn’t been so many issues / complaints about transport links and Blues (reasonably) calling for a single tier North Stand. I would like to see the ground expanded when the case justifies it but I don’t think there is a justification fir turfing out several thousand Blues out of the North Stand for a season or two,as the ground is being expanded.

 

[spiny]

A upsetting as this may be to people, there is no chance of any development to the North Stand any time soon. That ship sailed a long time ago.

We have had the best two seasons we will ever have, and still struggle to fill the stadium for a large majority of games. The idea above that we could sell another 7500 season tickets is in a redeveloped North Stand is simply fantasy, and more empty seats is just not worth the £50-£100m investment.

As some posters have written earlier on this thread, until we get to a stage that every seat is filled for the majority of games including all corporate offerings, then major investment cannot be justified.

There was real momentum at one stage to keep it snowballing, and I'm sure if that had been maintained then work would have already started on the new stand. But that stalled and now we are in the position that nobody could justify creating more seats - especially when the stand will be completed post Pep when who knows what position we will be in.

What business turns away potential customers for life by denying access and alienating them? Economics are important but remember when Ferguson pushed to expand OT with naysayers saying it would not be filled. The opportunity is for a state of the art revamp of the North stand for a great matchday experience.

At the takeover we had a loyal but ageing local fanbase. 10 years later the new young fans are just starting to come through to replace the old. More kids are supporting City than United but it will take a while to show in attendances. Similarly with out of town and overseas supporters.

There is a faction on this board that believes the only true fans hold season cards and attend every game. Many passionate City fans may only attend a handful of games for reasons of commitments, time, travel and cost. These will be less attractive games and it is not easy for a group to sit together especially if a mix of season cards and occasionals. The answer has to be a pay on the day section that will require additional capacity.

It does not matter if every game is not sold out. You are providing access for more fans to enjoy the matchday experience and potentially become regulars. It is not a simple one dimensional issue but for more attractive fixtures the only option for a group to be together is a hospitality package which when added to travel, meals and potentially a hotel can cost to near to what some fans pay for a season card.

City cannot afford to have a significantly lower capacity than our domestic rivals if we plan for continued success with 60-65k capacity a minimum to cement our place as one of the top clubs in the world. I am in the camp of build it and they will come.

 

[spiny]

There would be some Blues relocating to cheaper seats and others buying season cards to turn up for half a dozen games per season. That said, There would be some Blues / families who have struggled to get season cards, as well, so they would grow the season card base to some degree. The Club has the data on ticket buying patterns amongst fans and mustn’t feel it is worth risking the £60mil plus layout on an expanded North Stand at the moment.

I think the Club need to get a better understanding of why big games like the League Cup Semi Final, Wembley trips and Madrid at home are going to general sale and whether there is an increasing trend for people to pick and choose their games. I think there is a growing group of Blues who have disdain for the administration of our Club and buy their tickets through unofficial sources that makes planning for an expanded ground more difficult.

I am too old and live too far away to be a seasoncard holder but am a supporters club member. Probably half the games I go to are with tickets bought from seasoncard holders including on this forum. There is no other option. In part it is one of capacity but also about the administration of the sale of tickets. There are many who are unaware or do not want to use unofficial sources because they tend to be limited and last minute. These fans are off City's radar and distorts the data on supporters.

It does "make planning for an expanded ground more difficult" but business is not an exact science and times you have to follow your instincts and take a punt if you are to grow.

 

[nmc]

A upsetting as this may be to people, there is no chance of any development to the North Stand any time soon. That ship sailed a long time ago.

We have had the best two seasons we will ever have, and still struggle to fill the stadium for a large majority of games. The idea above that we could sell another 7500 season tickets is in a redeveloped North Stand is simply fantasy, and more empty seats is just not worth the £50-£100m investment.

As some posters have written earlier on this thread, until we get to a stage that every seat is filled for the majority of games including all corporate offerings, then major investment cannot be justified.

There was real momentum at one stage to keep it snowballing, and I'm sure if that had been maintained then work would have already started on the new stand. But that stalled and now we are in the position that nobody could justify creating more seats - especially when the stand will be completed post Pep when who knows what position we will be in.

Living up to that User Name there ! ; )

 

[Marvin]

What business turns away potential customers for life by denying access and alienating them? Economics are important but remember when Ferguson pushed to expand OT with naysayers saying it would not be filled. The opportunity is for a state of the art revamp of the North stand for a great matchday experience.

At the takeover we had a loyal but ageing local fanbase. 10 years later the new young fans are just starting to come through to replace the old. More kids are supporting City than United but it will take a while to show in attendances. Similarly with out of town and overseas supporters.

There is a faction on this board that believes the only true fans hold season cards and attend every game. Many passionate City fans may only attend a handful of games for reasons of commitments, time, travel and cost. These will be less attractive games and it is not easy for a group to sit together especially if a mix of season cards and occasionals. The answer has to be a pay on the day section that will require additional capacity.

It does not matter if every game is not sold out. You are providing access for more fans to enjoy the matchday experience and potentially become regulars. It is not a simple one dimensional issue but for more attractive fixtures the only option for a group to be together is a hospitality package which when added to travel, meals and potentially a hotel can cost to near to what some fans pay for a season card.

City cannot afford to have a significantly lower capacity than our domestic rivals if we plan for continued success with 60-65k capacity a minimum to cement our place as one of the top clubs in the world. I am in the camp of build it and they will come.

You are assuming there that City will speculate to accumulate but perhaps those days of front-end investment are over? Look at the transfers: Sanchez, Maguire etc. All aspects of City's business suggest that the early days of front-ended investment are over.

However, the ground is full. We are not as popular as Man utd and Liverpool, but we are certainly a lot more popular than we were. I think we'd fill an expanded stand and that it would make financial sense to to it. There is a limited window though because everything is linked to the pitch. So far everything has gone right for us. What if we were to struggle for a season or two? It would then suddenly be off the agenda.

 

[JGL07]

The point about expanding the fan base is that it will not happen overnight it takes years to achieve.

Twenty years back City were filling a 30,000 seater stadium. They moved to a 43,000 stadium and still filled it. Or rather did until Stuart Pearce got hold of the team. Then they expanded the capacity to 55,000 and still filled it at least for League matches.

Ok a few matches, in particular, EFL Cup two-legged semifinals don’t fill the ground. Many of those have been dead rubbers anyway.

Expand it to 63,000 and it will still just about be filled. Some of the extra supporters City are picking up at the moment may be too young to buy season cards but will do in the future.

If City do not expand the stadium this will result in higher prices as the club seek to increase revenue.