Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

Centurions said:
Perhaps it's the way I'm reading that but I'm not sure what your point is?
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You said if City didn't get involved in mid 2021 you thought it would have just been a hole in the ground for 10 years. Thats not the case as hundreds of millions of contracts had been signed the project was never not going to happen.
 
petrusha said:
It was 2008 when Manchester City Council first raised the prospect of redeveloping land around the stadium in conjunction with City's new owners. At that point, I had a couple of very good contacts who were well placed to provide information who are no longer in the same posts.

I believe the intention at that stage was for Abu Dhabi to give the project a helping hand by investing in it as a prestige project rather than on strictly commercial terms as well as to assist in other ways. One example of the latter was that state-owned Abu Dhabi companies were intended office space in a new development to house their European HQs and help kick-start the Etihad Campus development project.

I was told that, in 2012, things changed politically in Abu Dhabi. Projects overseas were now to pay their own way rather than receiving beneficial treatment for reasons of prestige. Unfortunately, in the age of austerity, CFG were unable to find partners willing to enter into a relationship on acceptable commercial terms. Forget ideas that the economy was still growing. Incomes for many people were falling in real terms, meaning that leisure operators saw such projects as a risk given that such a large proportion of the prospective punters were really having to tighten their belts.

The arena will hopefully be a game-changer in that respect, by drawing large numbers of people to the site and making other development viable. It will already be a game-changer in terms of the offer for fans attending the stadium: in an interview with Tim Leiweke of OVG (the entertainment giant behind the arena) in this week's Sunday Times, it was stated that the new venue will include "32 bars, restaurants and clubs" which will be open on matchday.

That interview with Leiweke also contained the following snippet of information regarding OVG's prospective construction of an arena in Cardiff:



He isn't playing a waiting game in Manchester because the construction of Co-op Live has never been put on hold, albeit that construction is behind schedule. So what's different in God's own city that doesn't apply in the Welsh capital? Could it be that, back in May 2021, CFG agreed to become a 50/50 joint venture partner, meaning that increased costs and future risks are shared.

CFG, then, evidently believe in this project. The next step is probably a hotel. It makes sense, as mooted in this thread, for the hotel to incorporate conferencing facilities and a casino - indeed, that may well be necessary to ensure the necessary occupancy rates for a build of the type that's envisaged. If developers/operators baulk at the expense in the current climate, then we now have a precedent for CFG itself stepping in to help drive a project forward in those circumstances.

Of course, we need to wait and see what happens. But I think there are grounds to at least have genuine hope that the arena might kick-start the Collar Site development for which, it seems, we've been waiting forever.

The RFL finally completing its move to Etihad Campus is good news, too. And we should remember that they're also building a training pitch with a small spectator stand at the Beswick Hub. Hopefully that, with other developments, might encourage more sports bodies to relocate to the Campus, as the Eastlands Regeneration Framework intends and tempt an education provider into a partnership for the Innovation Zone after MMU welched on its deal.
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You'd be hoping for build costs to come down due to the economic uncertainty and labour costs too, but because of Truss and Kwarteng's little fuck up no one really knows where things are at the moment. I'm in the housebuilding game and we've been told to sit tight for now and wait and see what happens over the coming months. We don't use steel, which has been impacted by the war in Ukraine of course - another factor impacting construction over here. But we still have opportunities and it's by doing exactly what you say - partnering up. We can partner up with Housing Associations to forward sell and de-risk our cash position.

I think Tolmie mentioned on another thread about the long-term position on corporate hospitality. We're likely to see big businesses tighten the purse strings on things like that, so is now a good time to be increasing our offer? You can build now, hope to get lower costs and then have things in place for the recovery, or you can sit tight and wait for more certainty - it might cost more but there's more comfort on the return on investment, cashflow and margins.

Hotel's are unlikely to want to invest at this time, are people going to be spending on nights away? A casino funnily enough is probably a good idea right now - plenty will be gambling to try and make some extra cash when times are hard!

I'm still encouraged that they'll invest shortly. There's a fairly long planning game to play before we get to spades in the ground anyway. And what a good news story it would be to invest so significantly in the area - with all the lovely infographics about jobs created, wealth generated etc for the local area. It could help to boost Manchester at a time when it most needs it. By the time planning permission is granted you're possibly 6-12months away (depending what is being applied for) and you'd have 2-3 years to implement the consent in any case at which point there's much more certainty.

This thread and rumours in general seem to be picking up. The World Cup will take attention away from the club and it seems a logical time to make major announcements to steer some focus back on the club. Pep signing an extension is one we might hear shortly. Stadium expansion/wider development could be one as well.

The transport logistics are the main threat to whatever comes forwards in the collar site. It's an issue that needs resolving and I would be shocked if the club didn't have plans to address it in the medium-long term. Easy access is vital to creating a sustainable and attractive destination. You need to be able to get from the centre to the Etihad far more easily. They will want links from the airport to the area to be far improved as well so people fly in for events and aren't put off by the transport issues. The airport itself is another story unfortunately!
 
jrb said:
TBH I’m more than a little frustrated that there hasn’t even been a proposal for the Collar site made public, let alone a planning application submitted, and a start on site, 14 years on Since Sheikh Mansour bought the club.

The silence from the MCC is also very strange considering how happy and buoyed they and Sir Richard Leese were when Manchester won the Super Casino bid. You’d think MCC would be a bit frustrated in private with ADUG at the lack progress on the site that could have created and sustained 10,000’s of new jobs by now.
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Is there a full time department at City working on developing the collar site, COOP live etc?

All this stuff - a massive indoor arena, developing a new stand, a hotel, a bar/restaurant complex...it seems like a job for a top tier property development firm, and yet it seems to be run from the club with ad-hoc outside input when they settle on a new idea.
 
domalino said:
Is there a full time department at City working on developing the collar site, COOP live etc?

All this stuff - a massive indoor arena, developing a new stand, a hotel, a bar/restaurant complex...it seems like a job for a top tier property development firm, and yet it seems to be run from the club with ad-hoc outside input when they settle on a new idea.
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I don't know. I doubt many people do outside of City.

If you remember there was a team tasked with developing and creating the CFA on the quiet. They traveled around the world looking at some of the best football training facilities in the world.(they didn't go to United's Cliff training ground or to the canteen)

I would assume there is a similar team developing the NS and surrounding area, involving people at the club, architects, and other professionals who are involved in stadia, hotel, leisure, etc development.

If the plans for the NS expansion and surrounding area have moved forward there will be a large team of people working on the various proposals, awarding construction contracts, etc. Other people on here know much more about that side of property development than I will ever do.
 
Silvercloud said:
No chance of a rail link directly from Piccadilly to The Etihad. It'd need a part of the viaduct re-building to complete the loop otherwise the driver will have to change ends at Ashbury which limits the size of the train being used. This won't be cost effective (IMO).
That whole stretch of track of Piccadilly to Ashbury is just too busy to fit more trains in, even on just a match/concert day.
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But in theory it could be possible to create a rail link to Victoria…..
A poster some time ago uploaded an (interactive??) video that allowed you to take a train ride along the track at the side of the campus.
IIRC it split after crossing ATW with one branch going to Victoria and the other one passed the abattoir site over the level crossing at Berry Brow and then through Droylsden and Audenshaw before passing Ashton Moss and onto Ashton and beyond.
Ashton moss is already a park n ride location for the metro link with potential for a great deal more parking spaces.
I have said it before that this would be an ideal stop for a link from the Etihad, lots of car parking spaces, a large number of leisure outlets to help split the after match travelling crowds.
It also has close motorway links which makes it an ideal location for a quick getaway too
The issues with a link to Piccadilly (without even taking into account the impact of HS2) are lessened in my opinion because of the existing link at Ashburys, plus it’s (apparently) only a 20 minute walk to Piccadilly anyway;-)
 
A better and full article here.

Even with the mayor’s blessing, the stadium still will need to be approved through the Uniform Land Use Review Procedure, a months-long process that will begin early next year and requires passage by the City Council.

The plan is expected to be unveiled at the Queens Museum.

nycfc-approved-stadium-630.jpg

 
domalino said:
Is there a full time department at City working on developing the collar site, COOP live etc?

All this stuff - a massive indoor arena, developing a new stand, a hotel, a bar/restaurant complex...it seems like a job for a top tier property development firm, and yet it seems to be run from the club with ad-hoc outside input when they settle on a new idea.
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I doubt there's a department at City working on it. The money and ideas come from the top and then consultants crack on and report back. Deloitte managed the planning application for the SS/NS expansion with Populous Architects doing the design (they've also done Spurs' new stadium amongst a wealth of other projects including masterplanning work). I'd expect the same team on this, doing wider proposals. They'll set the timescales and the budget and the consultants will go and make it work.

The main issue in my opinion is the transport capacity for wider development. The existing infrastructure cannot cope with increased demand in this location. So they'll have to have modelled scenarios and explored mitigation. As Petrusha stated, you'd anticipate some significant S106 contributions towards improving local transport infrastructure. What that will look like I'm unsure. Increased trams? New cycle/footpath connections? Upgrading existing train lines to deliver a new station. Those are the likely options.
 
@dips66 @jrb @supercity88 has some points here regarding railways to the stadium and the arena

But in theory, it could be possible to create a rail link to Victoria…..
A poster some time ago uploaded an (interactive??) video that allowed you to take a train ride along the track at the side of the campus.
IIRC it split after crossing ATW with one branch going to Victoria and the other one passing the abattoir site over the level crossing at Berry Brow and then through Droylsden and Audenshaw before passing Ashton Moss and onto Ashton and beyond.
Ashton moss is already a park-n-ride location for the metro link with the potential for a great deal more parking spaces.
I have said it before that this would be an ideal stop for a link from the Etihad, lots of car parking spaces, a large number of leisure outlets to help split the after-match travelling crowds.
It also has close motorway links which makes it an ideal location for a quick getaway too
The issues with a link to Piccadilly (without even taking into account the impact of HS2) are lessened in my opinion because of the existing link at Ashburys, plus it’s (apparently) only a 20-minute walk to Piccadilly anyway;-)
 
dips66 said:
But in theory it could be possible to create a rail link to Victoria…..
A poster some time ago uploaded an (interactive??) video that allowed you to take a train ride along the track at the side of the campus.
IIRC it split after crossing ATW with one branch going to Victoria and the other one passed the abattoir site over the level crossing at Berry Brow and then through Droylsden and Audenshaw before passing Ashton Moss and onto Ashton and beyond.
Ashton moss is already a park n ride location for the metro link with potential for a great deal more parking spaces.
I have said it before that this would be an ideal stop for a link from the Etihad, lots of car parking spaces, a large number of leisure outlets to help split the after match travelling crowds.
It also has close motorway links which makes it an ideal location for a quick getaway too
The issues with a link to Piccadilly (without even taking into account the impact of HS2) are lessened in my opinion because of the existing link at Ashburys, plus it’s (apparently) only a 20 minute walk to Piccadilly anyway;-)
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There already is a link between Victoria and Piccadilly (the £85M Ordsall Chord). Trains from Newcastle visit Victoria via the Huddersfield line, then use the chord around the west of the city to get to Piccadilly before going to the airport. Adding that viaduct would allow trains to avoid the chord (which is very busy) if the intention is to terminate at Piccadilly, but really if people are coming to Manchester from the North or East then it's easier for them to just terminate at Victoria rather than spend a load of money on a bridge. In any case I thought HS2 would make it nigh on impossible to reconnect the track, and if not we would be looking at long past 2030 to get it done. The money would be much better spent on building platforms 15/16 at Piccadilly.

Trains are great but they're not for movement of lots of people over short distances in a short period of time. Tram-train is the best option for this line, connecting Glossop/Marple to Victoria.
 
jrb said:
A better and full article here.

Even with the mayor’s blessing, the stadium still will need to be approved through the Uniform Land Use Review Procedure, a months-long process that will begin early next year and requires passage by the City Council.

The plan is expected to be unveiled at the Queens Museum.

View attachment 61060

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Some of the reader comments on the New York Post story are very cynical about the current state of the area the stadium and housing is planned for. It sounds a bit dodgy, perhaps a bit like Beswick was in the 80s and 90s!
 
LEXSTARproject said:
Got this ages ago from Manchester City , maybe working on something in the background @jrb @supercity88 @domalino @Gone for a Burton @petrusha

View attachment 61067
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This was a well publicised fan survey which most members got several years back. They also held local fan group sessions as well. Whatever happened, they ultimately delayed expansion of the North Stand following this review. I’d heard there just wasn’t the ticket demand for it at the time but wouldn’t be surprised if half the people who took the surveys were moaning about potentially moving as well.
 
jrb said:
A better and full article here.

Even with the mayor’s blessing, the stadium still will need to be approved through the Uniform Land Use Review Procedure, a months-long process that will begin early next year and requires passage by the City Council.

The plan is expected to be unveiled at the Queens Museum.

View attachment 61060

Click to expand...

Oh, so it’s still may not happen? Haven’t they put forward other stadium builds it gets the big NO!?
 
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