Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[Marvin]

Safe standing gives additional seats in the same area than normal seating. Not sure what the ratio is. Basically it means more seats are squeezed into the same area. Meaning City can make more money, depending on what they price the safe standing seats at. Hence why I'm bulking at the £580 quoted in the email. There's no reason why City can't pitch the safe standing season tickets at £299, which is the same as the cheapest season tickets currently on offer.

For me the main issue is getting singers into the safe standing area, rather than people who just want to go in there because the safe standing seats could be cheaper, but won't bother singing. If this happens then the NS safe standing section will be nothing more than a safe standing South Stand level 1.

Safe standing is not currently permitted. I think what City might do is design an area in it which could be converted to safe-standing if legislation is changed.

It is possible to have 2 standing to 1 seating with rail seats, and they do this for league games in Germany and that would increase the capacity. I'd be in favour if it was 2 for 1 otherwise we might as well just stand in the seats.

 

[Marvin]

The atmosphere at the stadium is currently absolutely awful and anyone who thinks a singing section needs to be next to the away fans just doesn’t get it.

At the moment there are City fans sat either side of the away fans and in the bottom tier these City fans are all stood up as well. Guess what? It’s quiet for the majority of the game.

Truth is, atmosphere isn’t about running to taunt the opposition fans every time we score.
Look at the Yellow Wall at Dortmund, the Kop and Stretford end back in the day. All these are the oppositite end of the away fans.

That is true but in England those ends are quiet too. Old Trafford and Anfield can be dead. I don't think you can get a technical solution to this problem by changing the design of the stand. Pricing is probably the most significant thing that clubs can change but will clubs be prepared to set aside an area for match by match sales and queueing on the day? Unreserved seating. It would often be empty in my opinion, and it would need to be significant in size to work.

We should really be discussing what City are licensed currently to do. What is the point of saying fans want this, and then club looking at it and saying OK well we know the fans want this, but we can't do that because the legislation does not permit this.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

The atmosphere at the stadium is currently absolutely awful and anyone who thinks a singing section needs to be next to the away fans just doesn’t get it.

At the moment there are City fans sat either side of the away fans and in the bottom tier these City fans are all stood up as well. Guess what? It’s quiet for the majority of the game.

Truth is, atmosphere isn’t about running to taunt the opposition fans every time we score.
Look at the Yellow Wall at Dortmund, the Kop and Stretford end back in the day. All these are the oppositite end of the away fans.

Spot on. The idea we need away fans to create noise is a complete myth. We are outsung most weeks, whether it’s a full away section or not - Lyon being an example of that.

As you say the fans next to the away fans don’t don’t sing as it is. I’d keep what we have now, but also create the home end that we need in the north stand.

Pretty much every other club has a home end and most are planning to build one aswell.

 

[jrb]

Safe standing is not currently permitted. I think what City might do is design an area in it which could be converted to safe-standing if legislation is changed.

It is possible to have 2 standing to 1 seating with rail seats, and they do this for league games in Germany and that would increase the capacity. I'd be in favour if it was 2 for 1 otherwise we might as well just stand in the seats.

Correct.

But standing is.(not permitted) But they turn a nlind eye to it. Folly. Madness. Politically motivated. Out of date. Etc.

But there is a possibility safe standing could be introduced by the time the NS is built in 2-3 years, if that is a possible time scale?

I don't think the club would want to shell out twice to get the seating altered if they redeveloped the NS first, and then safe standing was introduced at a later date.

 

[nmc]

Correct.

But standing is.(not permitted) But they turn a nlind eye to it. Folly. Madness. Politically motivated. Out of date. Etc.

But there is a possibility safe standing could be introduced by the time the NS is built in 2-3 years, if that is a possible time scale?

I don't think the club would want to shell out twice to get the seating altered if they redeveloped the NS first, and then safe standing was introduced at a later date.

I think in Germany they have locks on the rail seating - so for some games is in the up position so everyone stands - (Bundesliga). And for European games the rail seating is locked into the seating position - so it’s harder to stand. Happy to be corrected but we may have a situation where we fit rail seating and it has to be used officially as seating for a time- but of course everyone will stand up.

 

[willipp]

Spot on. The idea we need away fans to create noise is a complete myth. We are outsung most weeks, whether it’s a full away section or not - Lyon being an example of that.

As you say the fans next to the away fans don’t don’t sing as it is. I’d keep what we have now, but also create the home end that we need in the north stand.

Pretty much every other club has a home end and most are planning to build one aswell.

I don’t think it helps that the singing pockets we have around 115, 109, SSL3 and any others are all divided by the away fans and different tiers. It leads to disjointed songs, often 109 and 115 are singing totally different songs. If in the new NS they pull these pockets of people together into a single tier section it will have a positive impact.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

The atmosphere at the stadium is currently absolutely awful and anyone who thinks a singing section needs to be next to the away fans just doesn’t get it.

At the moment there are City fans sat either side of the away fans and in the bottom tier these City fans are all stood up as well. Guess what? It’s quiet for the majority of the game.

Truth is, atmosphere isn’t about running to taunt the opposition fans every time we score.
Look at the Yellow Wall at Dortmund, the Kop and Stretford end back in the day. All these are the oppositite end of the away fans.

The key words in your thread is “back in the day” . Football is very different now and the kop and Stretford end are not rocking like they were back in the day.

 

[HelloCity]

The key words in your thread is “back in the day” . Football is very different now and the kop and Stretford end are not rocking like they were back in the day.

Still better than what we have with the latter. Dortmund is still absolutely amazing though.

We have a support spread thin over three different tiers with a corporate section bang in the middle.

The question is do you need to be next to the away fans to create an atmosphere and that answer is clearly no.

Maybe I’m different than you but atmosphere is making noise and singing your support for City throughout the match. Maybe you think it’s about running the the away fans, goading and telling them to **** off after each goal?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Still better than what we have with the latter. Dortmund is still absolutely amazing though.

We have a support spread thin over three different tiers with a corporate section bang in the middle.

The question is do you need to be next to the away fans to create an atmosphere and that answer is clearly no.

Maybe I’m different than you but atmosphere is making noise and singing your support for City throughout the match. Maybe you think it’s about running the the away fans, goading and telling them to **** off after each goal?

I guess palace have the most vocal support at home , where are the away fans relative to them. Genuine question as I don’t know?

 

[HelloCity]

I guess palace have the most vocal support at home , where are the away fans relative to them. Genuine question as I don’t know?

A corner at the opposite end.

 

[HelloCity]

I think in Germany they have locks on the rail seating - so for some games is in the up position so everyone stands - (Bundesliga). And for European games the rail seating is locked into the seating position - so it’s harder to stand. Happy to be corrected but we may have a situation where we fit rail seating and it has to be used officially as seating for a time- but of course everyone will stand up.

It’s just like a normal seat when it’s unlocked and folds up when you stand up.

Everyone still stands in these sections when they’re in ‘seating mode’ even though they’re not really supposed to.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

A corner at the opposite end.

Ok thanks. Well let’s hope it works because I have to say it always looks a good atmosphere there

 

[pardoeofftomexico]

Safe standing is not currently permitted. I think what City might do is design an area in it which could be converted to safe-standing if legislation is changed.

It is possible to have 2 standing to 1 seating with rail seats, and they do this for league games in Germany and that would increase the capacity. I'd be in favour if it was 2 for 1 otherwise we might as well just stand in the seats.

This is what I just don't see at all. Was it WBA who were looking at safe standing the other year and they were working on the basis of exactly the same number of people as with seats. While you may get one or two extra I really can't imagine twice as many people stood in my row. We are not that friendly! I will try to envisage it this afternoon on the occasions we stand up but I would like to hear from someone who has genuine design experience in this field.

 

[Jordie]

I don’t think it helps that the singing pockets we have around 115, 109, SSL3 and any others are all divided by the away fans and different tiers. It leads to disjointed songs, often 109 and 115 are singing totally different songs. If in the new NS they pull these pockets of people together into a single tier section it will have a positive impact.

Absolutely spot on. I think bringing all the singers together is the biggest problem, regardless of where they are and whether they are in safe standing/ rail seating.

 

[Marvin]

An extract from: https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/safe-standing-qa-91188

How many people can you fit into a rail seating section in comparison to a conventional stand?
“There is no ‘one size fits all’ answer to that question. And there are many factors that can determine what the answer would be in each individual case. These include national regulations, the amount of space available between the rows of rail seats and the size of the stadium exits and concourses.

“In a country where the national regulations permit it and a stadium’s exits and concourses are large enough to handle the number of people concerned, you could be looking at as many as two people per seat space (in Hannover, for instance, 5,700 fans stand in an area of 3,000 rail seats).

“In the UK, however, seating rows tend not to be as deep as they are in, for example, Germany and in existing UK stadia the exits and concourses will have been designed to cope with no more people than the number of seats in the stand. In retrofit situations, therefore, achieving more than one person per seat may present a challenge – albeit not insurmountable.

“For new builds, however, the situation is different. Whether architects are designing a new stand or a whole stadium, it is clearly possible for them to design exits and concourses large enough to cope with more people than there are seats. This is precisely what Tottenham have done for the new White Hart Lane “with sections of the seating bowl designed to accommodate areas of safe standing if the current licensing regulations change” and potential built into the design for the 61,000 capacity to “increase by c 1800 were legislation to change and safe standing areas be approved.”

It does sound like it is possible that safe standing could lead to an increase in capacity but there are a number of steps required first:

1) Government legislation
2) Stadium design has to be configured in advance in such a way to make 2:1 possible (otherwise in my opinion no advantage - although others probably disagree)

I am sure any designer will be aware of this even if we are only vaguely familiar with issues.

 

[Gordyola]

Here is an example of the seats used in a safe standing area these are the type that be locked up when standing is permitted

 

[willipp]

Absolutely spot on. I think bringing all the singers together is the biggest problem, regardless of where they are and whether they are in safe standing/ rail seating.

Im in 115 near the front and there is always a good group of people who sing around there. However, for the Shaktar game i was in 109 and you could hardly hear 115 and tey were singing totally different songs. Its currently just totally disjointed and for the best will in the world its never going to work unless everyone is brought together.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Not even a fancy new stand would change the atmosphere today.

It's not the lay-out, it's not the acoustics, it's not the team.

Our fans leave a lot to be desired on quite a few occasions where many seem to think they just have to sit back and enjoy the show.

Not even a single section today were audible or could be seen even engaging.

The team needed us today and we were never there, kudos for them grinding it out.

 

[worsleyweb]

Not even a fancy new stand would change the atmosphere today.

It's not the lay-out, it's not the acoustics, it's not the team.

Our fans leave a lot to be desired on quite a few occasions where many seem to think they just have to sit back and enjoy the show.

Not even a single section today were audible or could be seen even engaging.

The team needed us today and we were never there, kudos for them grinding it out.

Second half was ok!

 

[The blue phantom]

Not even a fancy new stand would change the atmosphere today.

It's not the lay-out, it's not the acoustics, it's not the team.

Our fans leave a lot to be desired on quite a few occasions where many seem to think they just have to sit back and enjoy the show.

Not even a single section today were audible or could be seen even engaging.

The team needed us today and we were never there, kudos for them grinding it out.

It's not new to us, Maine road was just as shocking at times.