Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

kevin horlocks wand said:
and how they going to control that

city have a a 5.30 kick off Saturday

massive band playing in the arena that Saturday night

they will build this but there will be no more roads no easier parking no more trains , no underground no monorail from the city

they might the odd more double tram on to deal with it
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Thats the question and no idea what the asnwer is. More trams, build a train station for the campus that links to the northern network so trains came come directly to the campus and not to picadilly. Improve the road networks (takes longer on a bus getting back to picadilly than walking after a match).
 
NeilYoungIsBack said:
It will be interesting to see what the implications are of yesterday's Heathrow court decision.

Potentially, any major development that is largely dependent on the car (such as this proposed Arena) even if permitted now runs the risk of being challenged on the grounds of contributing to climate change.

I suggest there needs to be a credible plan for public transport infrastructure improvements at this stage, not later on.
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They say that 20,000 people use the metro and walk to/from City games so them being a 20,000 arena they think they can rely mostly on eco-friendly infrastructure.
 
willipp said:
You know what, from experience i couldnt think of anything worse than a multi storey car park. I went to concert at the liverpool arena on the docks and parked on the multi storey. Its good as its right by the arena but getting out of it afterwards was horrific. Took over an hour just to get off it and then had to deal with all the traffic around the docks, far far worse than anything ive ever had getting away from city.
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I suppose it depends on how it's built. I've been on the City car park as it currently is and it's wacky races getting out. Quite hilarious at times.
 
willipp said:
You know what, from experience i couldnt think of anything worse than a multi storey car park. I went to concert at the liverpool arena on the docks and parked on the multi storey. Its good as its right by the arena but getting out of it afterwards was horrific. Took over an hour just to get off it and then had to deal with all the traffic around the docks, far far worse than anything ive ever had getting away from city.
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That carpark went up in flames a few year's back...

 
LancashireBlue said:
I don't think it's all that uncommon in the States as the venues usually share the parking lots. in Philadelphia, for example, the arena, football and baseball stadiums are all really close to each other.

As for Europe, Stuttgart technically has 3 indoor arenas and the football stadium all right next to each other. One decent sized arena with 15k, one with 8k and one of the stands houses a 2k arena that's used for volleyball, field hockey etc.
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In Philadelphia you are right The Philys, Eagles, 76s and Flyers play on the same Road. Of course you have the SEPTA system that really helps. Incidentally SEPTA stands for Slow Expensive Prone to Accidents ! I’m told.
 
willipp said:
You know what, from experience i couldnt think of anything worse than a multi storey car park. I went to concert at the liverpool arena on the docks and parked on the multi storey. Its good as its right by the arena but getting out of it afterwards was horrific. Took over an hour just to get off it and then had to deal with all the traffic around the docks, far far worse than anything ive ever had getting away from city.
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Munich can be a complete and utter pain in the arse also. The football stadium essentially sits on top of a multi storey car park.
 
domalino said:
They say that 20,000 people use the metro and walk to/from City games so them being a 20,000 arena they think they can rely mostly on eco-friendly infrastructure.
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I think it the Metrolink probably could just about cope on days/nights when there is no football happening.

My worry is on those days when clashes do happen, because the Blue car park will be full already and the Metrolink isn't great on football nights as things stand at the moment.
 
NeilYoungIsBack said:
I think it the Metrolink probably could just about cope on days/nights when there is no football happening.

My worry is on those days when clashes do happen, because the Blue car park will be full already and the Metrolink isn't great on football nights as things stand at the moment.
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Yeah I don't think it works in practice, but it sounds like it's their reasoning for the application.
 
NeilYoungIsBack said:
It will be interesting to see what the implications are of yesterday's Heathrow court decision.

Potentially, any major development that is largely dependent on the car (such as this proposed Arena) even if permitted now runs the risk of being challenged on the grounds of contributing to climate change.

I suggest there needs to be a credible plan for public transport infrastructure improvements at this stage, not later on.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree, but nobody seems to want to take on the cost of improving current public transport. Are City restricted on what they can spend due to FFP (honest question I don't know enough on what is/isn't allowed)? At the moment, and I keep saying this, the best way to move lots of people in a short time is to move them in different directions, but currently we only have an east/west solution, generally feeding the majority back into the congested city centre. I refuse to do that because it takes me 30mins longer to do the 9 miles home, is bloody expensive for the 4 of us, is uncomfortable and unreliable. If nobody wants a huge up-front cost of new tram lines, train stations, then why not have shuttle buses running from Park & Ride car parks set up near some of the M60 junctions. Just needs bus lanes on ATW. Until they do something, then people will still use their cars.
 
NeilYoungIsBack said:
It will be interesting to see what the implications are of yesterday's Heathrow court decision.

Potentially, any major development that is largely dependent on the car (such as this proposed Arena) even if permitted now runs the risk of being challenged on the grounds of contributing to climate change.

I suggest there needs to be a credible plan for public transport infrastructure improvements at this stage, not later on.
Click to expand...
There is a city centre transport strategy and that's anti-car so if the arena was car dependent there'd be a problem.
 
willipp said:
Thats the question and no idea what the asnwer is. More trams, build a train station for the campus that links to the northern network so trains came come directly to the campus and not to picadilly. Improve the road networks (takes longer on a bus getting back to picadilly than walking after a match).
Click to expand...

Those rail lines on the Phillip's Park/Ashburys curve are very much an under-utilised resource. At the moment hardly any passenger trains use them but it is possible to imagine this changing in the future so long as there is a willingness to invest.

Obviously a station would have to be built and the train operators convinced there is the potential for traffic, but the area around the Etihad is supposed to be undergoing a transformation over the next 20 years (if the East Manchester framework is to be believed) with lots more housing and commercial workspace as well as all the leisure stuff we are focused on here.

Boris is keen on infrastructure and the Govt has recently announced another round of the New Stations Fund plus lots of money for rail feasibility studies, so it maybe it is time for City and its development partners to convince Mayor Burnham and the City Council to really make the case for some transformative public transport infrastructure for the Eastlands area.
 
NeilYoungIsBack said:
Can anyone think of a location where an arena is located next to a 50K football stadium in a suburban situation?

The one that occurs to me is Hamburg where the football ground is right next to the Colorline Arena (or whatever they call it now). Their arena is smaller though than the one planned for East Manchester..

The difference is that Hamburg's arena is served by a heavy rail line and also two S-Bahn lines so it works fairly well from what I understand. I went to an event at the Arena some years ago but it wasn't during the football season. They must be used to clashes though because they use it for ice hockey (or they did)
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Not 50K but Coventry's (or Wasps) Ricoh Arena has a smaller venue for concerts next to it.
 
NeilYoungIsBack said:
Those rail lines on the Phillip's Park/Ashburys curve are very much an under-utilised resource. At the moment hardly any passenger trains use them but it is possible to imagine this changing in the future so long as there is a willingness to invest.

Obviously a station would have to be built and the train operators convinced there is the potential for traffic, but the area around the Etihad is supposed to be undergoing a transformation over the next 20 years (if the East Manchester framework is to be believed) with lots more housing and commercial workspace as well as all the leisure stuff we are focused on here.

Boris is keen on infrastructure and the Govt has recently announced another round of the New Stations Fund plus lots of money for rail feasibility studies, so it maybe it is time for City and its development partners to convince Mayor Burnham and the City Council to really make the case for some transformative public transport infrastructure for the Eastlands area.
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Or re-open Philips Park station on the Ashton line. Just a short walk away
 
Marvin said:
There is a city centre transport strategy and that's anti-car so if the arena was car dependent there'd be a problem.
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What they've seemingly announced is that they are going with the current infrastructure. That is a mix of tram, pedestrians and car. Only, when there's two events on at the same time, will there be less or more cars trying to get there than if it was just one? Either they improve the public transport or build more car parking or just suck it and see. My point is that I think they might increase the number of official car parking places (which could be a multi-storey) but that will be a short to mid term solution. In any case, more cars isn't necessarily bad for the environment, cars stuck going nowhere with their petrol engines running is, so it IS possible to increase car parking, improve the movement of the cars and not impact the environmental targets. Even more so with cars getting 'greener' engines.
 
NeilYoungIsBack said:
The article says that clashes will be 'mostly avoided':

Clashes with City matches will be mostly avoided to try and alleviate traffic and transport issues.

However they say there may be occasions when events are on at both the stadium and arena at the same time, for example when City games have been moved at late notice for TV coverage, but they say in those circumstances they would work with the council, the police and the local community to manage them.

The question is given current infrastructure what can the council/police actually do to manage a situation where (say) 23K pop music fans descend on the Arena the same night we are playing a 5.30 PL game or an 8pm CL game ?
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With the way tv chops and changes fixtures, it will be chaos because concert dates will be set in stone, tv won’t care, it will be carnage around there, the car parks for football will get priority as most will have been included in season tickets, so what if concert goers have pre booked parking and then suddenly they dump a football match on the same night?
 
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