EU referendum deal (title edited)

CityStu said:
But each individual has to make those judgement calls on the basis of facts. How can anyone predict how the trading relationship would change if they don't know what we gain/lose from it now? Things like the proportion of our imports/exports that are traded with the EU, some example trading costs with non-EU countries, etc. I appreciate that that information is probably available somewhere, but it should be given to people rather than making them search for it off their own back.
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The biggest things are unknown. Take external trade treaties - the UK would have to exit all the EU treaties (which is most of the world) then renegotiate the treaties. That firstly means more British civil servants but is that 100 or 10000, they need to be administered is it 200 or 20000. The stay in campaign will say that Canada, China, etc are looking forward to getting a much better deal with Britain and screw us the out campaign will say they all see Britain as a key trade partner and will give us a deal just as good.

Some say we will be free like Norway but neglect turntable that outside oil, fish and minerals Norway is disadvantaged because it has to obey nearly all industrial manufacturing and business rules with no say.

Then you have EU human rights law, some see it as outrageous we have human rights imposed on us, others see this as more protection for us as citizens.

Most of the biggest impacts are actually Unknown and can't be known until we try it. IE what will it do for trade with EU and currency. How much worse will we be off with the rest of the world. Are we still so important to the US because we are the UK or is it because we are the English bridge to the EU trade wise.will new treaties take months or years to get in place, will they cost us minimally or massively. How long will it take to rewrite our law , how much will that cost, will we be safer or worse off.

If it slows immigration and the economy slows and we lose growth (which in uk terms is basically driven by immigration) where will the new immigration come from. Will an aus system work are there enough people wanting to come who would suffice

It goes on and on, to change is a leap of faith which could be OK - could deliver some promises, it could change very little and be a costly exercise to change nothing or it could cause huge problems.

We shall see but I am not sure facts will help overly as it is a leap of faith.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
The biggest things are unknown. Take external trade treaties - the UK would have to exit all the EU treaties (which is most of the world) then renegotiate the treaties. That firstly means more British civil servants but is that 100 or 10000, they need to be administered is it 200 or 20000. The stay in campaign will say that Canada, China, etc are looking forward to getting a much better deal with Britain and screw us the out campaign will say they all see Britain as a key trade partner and will give us a deal just as good.

Some say we will be free like Norway but neglect turntable that outside oil, fish and minerals Norway is disadvantaged because it has to obey nearly all industrial manufacturing and business rules with no say.

Then you have EU human rights law, some see it as outrageous we have human rights imposed on us, others see this as more protection for us as citizens.

Most of the biggest impacts are actually Unknown and can't be known until we try it. IE what will it do for trade with EU and currency. How much worse will we be off with the rest of the world. Are we still so important to the US because we are the UK or is it because we are the English bridge to the EU trade wise.will new treaties take months or years to get in place, will they cost us minimally or massively. How long will it take to rewrite our law , how much will that cost, will we be safer or worse off.

If it slows immigration and the economy slows and we lose growth (which in uk terms is basically driven by immigration) where will the new immigration come from. Will an aus system work are there enough people wanting to come who would suffice

It goes on and on, to change is a leap of faith which could be OK - could deliver some promises, it could change very little and be a costly exercise to change nothing or it could cause huge problems.

We shall see but I am not sure facts will help overly as it is a leap of faith.
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And that's only half of the equation. The EU is a totally different institution now to the one we joined and it will continue changing. Ever closer union is still the objective. New treaties will be introduced, additional countries will join. We're unlikely to be offered a referendum every time there's a treaty change. When we vote this year or next we have to take a view on whether we want to stay in the EU, not just as it is now, but how it will look in the future.
 
cibaman said:
And that's only half of the equation. The EU is a totally different institution now to the one we joined and it will continue changing. Ever closer union is still the objective. New treaties will be introduced, additional countries will join. We're unlikely to be offered a referendum every time there's a treaty change. When we vote this year or next we have to take a view on whether we want to stay in the EU, not just as it is now, but how it will look in the future.
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All very fair points and that's without knowing what happens with other trading blocs. For the Uk much depends if they strengthen or break apart too.
 
I think the main problem is that if there is a yes vote that is not only a vote for the status quo it will be used as a vote for any further strengthening of EU powers' .

Just like the vote to join a Common market has got us to this point and we were never told this might happen, we will be misled again; a yes vote will be the end of Great Britain because a yes vote will hand all the powers the Eu needs to do what ever they want going forward.
This is why we must ignore all the scaremongering and take the only chance we will ever get to take back our own destiny.
I for one do not want to be governed by faceless unelected Europeans.
Look how many Jocks are already regretting not taking their chance to grasp their once in a generation/ lifetime chance for independence.
 
David Cameron said on the Andrew Marr show today that he would stay on as Prime Minister, even if the result of the vote is to leave the EU. The PM would stay on even if he's on the losing side in the biggest constitutional issue in recent history. That is insane.
 
I Hart Man City said:
David Cameron said on the Andrew Marr show today that he would stay on as Prime Minister, even if the result of the vote is to leave the EU. The PM would stay on even if he's on the losing side in the biggest constitutional issue in recent history. That is insane.
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He's going before the end of this parliament anyway. Seems odd that he would stay on for would only be a few months
 
I Hart Man City said:
David Cameron said on the Andrew Marr show today that he would stay on as Prime Minister, even if the result of the vote is to leave the EU. The PM would stay on even if he's on the losing side in the biggest constitutional issue in recent history. That is insane.
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Not really. Of course he would go. But announcing that in advance would be daft.
 
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