I Hart Man City
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 May 2010
- Messages
- 693
Fair enough but I just don't think a Prime Minister could lose on such a big constitutional issue and not have his position become untenable.
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Fair enough but I just don't think a Prime Minister could lose on such a big constitutional issue and not have his position become untenable.
M
M
mat
Guest
Scottish vote all over again.The worst thing about the "re-negotiation" is that it gives the Eurosceptics a ton of ammunition to keep the debate going for decades if there's a "Stay" vote. Its just so vague that they'll be able to argue that the EU has failed to deliver, that the electorate were misled etc.
As an old miserable get who voted "Yes" to the Common Market,I will vote "Out" in the up coming referendum.I never had a vote to say that European laws would userp our own parliament,that control of our borders would be dictated by Europe,no vote on this what so ever.And I also think that the governments, from Ted Heath onwards were traitors to our population, for this underhanded capitulation to nameless unelected politicians who have their own countries Agenda.The make-up of the UK has changed and in 20/30 years time Enoch Powell's words will ring true.God help our children/grand children.The country is full,Schools,hospitals,transport at breaking point,yet every time Cameron opens his mouth their is money to be given to people abroad.The MPs who are now changing their long held opinions on Europe are only thinking of themselves and what they will gain,not what their constituants demand.Rant over.
As a previously fully committed europhile, the list of "stay" sayers make me think i am backing the wrong horse.
In a nutshell, if the torys are for something then it is bad for me, if they are against something( democracy, trade unions, the NHS etc) then it is good for me. Dilemma
In a nutshell, if the torys are for something then it is bad for me, if they are against something( democracy, trade unions, the NHS etc) then it is good for me. Dilemma
Of course we will stay in. The US wants, needs, and insists our continued participation. This campaign won’t be marked by a real negotiation between the UK and the EU, that’s already a given. Goldman Sachs has infiltrated the highest echelons of the Cabinet Office and is driving the pro-EU camp to maintain the GS hegemony in the financial power houses of the EU.
The European Union was set up to favour big business, so anything that happens to Britain will have no effect on the private corporations who make use of Britain’s poor regulatory systems – whilst still being able to exploit countries who benefit from having tight regulations and therefore better economies.
In or out, Britain will still be the screwdriver economy it is today, assembling cars and other equipment much as Romania does.
As to bureaucracies, whilst overstaffed in Holland and Germany, they do at least work. The entire point of having the EU bureaucracy in Brussels was that whilst it works – that is to say, the papers get pushed – it’s easy enough for certain ‘hands’ to guide the decisions as to what that paper does.
Brexit is a ‘done deal’ by this bunch of over powerful and dogmatic elites.
There is a lot of anger and resentment building to what amounts to national betrayal at many levels.
The European Union was set up to favour big business, so anything that happens to Britain will have no effect on the private corporations who make use of Britain’s poor regulatory systems – whilst still being able to exploit countries who benefit from having tight regulations and therefore better economies.
In or out, Britain will still be the screwdriver economy it is today, assembling cars and other equipment much as Romania does.
As to bureaucracies, whilst overstaffed in Holland and Germany, they do at least work. The entire point of having the EU bureaucracy in Brussels was that whilst it works – that is to say, the papers get pushed – it’s easy enough for certain ‘hands’ to guide the decisions as to what that paper does.
Brexit is a ‘done deal’ by this bunch of over powerful and dogmatic elites.
There is a lot of anger and resentment building to what amounts to national betrayal at many levels.
Gelsons Dad
Well-Known Member
Of course we will stay in. The US wants, needs, and insists our continued participation. This campaign won’t be marked by a real negotiation between the UK and the EU, that’s already a given. Goldman Sachs has infiltrated the highest echelons of the Cabinet Office and is driving the pro-EU camp to maintain the GS hegemony in the financial power houses of the EU.
The European Union was set up to favour big business, so anything that happens to Britain will have no effect on the private corporations who make use of Britain’s poor regulatory systems – whilst still being able to exploit countries who benefit from having tight regulations and therefore better economies.
In or out, Britain will still be the screwdriver economy it is today, assembling cars and other equipment much as Romania does.
As to bureaucracies, whilst overstaffed in Holland and Germany, they do at least work. The entire point of having the EU bureaucracy in Brussels was that whilst it works – that is to say, the papers get pushed – it’s easy enough for certain ‘hands’ to guide the decisions as to what that paper does.
Brexit is a ‘done deal’ by this bunch of over powerful and dogmatic elites.
There is a lot of anger and resentment building to what amounts to national betrayal at many levels.
A screwdriver economy like Romania!
Utter nonsense.
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
"he has done the job required of him" ???Not sure why. We live in a democracy, and he would have honoured that by giving people a choice.
"Winning" side or not he has done the job required of him.
Are you seriously suggesting he has got a good deal out of these negotiations?
The 'concessions' he has won are virtually meaningless.
Take migration, the most important issue. The proposed four year benefit ban only comes into force when the so called 'emergency brake' kicks in and that has to be agreed by all other EU members and they can decide when it is removed, oh and it's a graduated ban, oh and child benefits will be paid at the level of claimants country, oh and it doesn't matter a fig anyway because even the full on proposal won't stop migrants coming here.
If he had anything about him he should say (as promised) that this deal does not represent a significant improvement in Britain's EU membership and so I'm recommending a leave vote.
But it was never about that was it? The referendum was simply to see off UKIP and the right wing of his own party and to gain an electoral advantage over Labour prior to the general election.
In other words a pro EU PM who is prepared to risk Britain leaving the EU for purely political advantage.
"he has done the job required of him" ???
Are you seriously suggesting he has got a good deal out of these negotiations?
The 'concessions' he has won are virtually meaningless.
Take migration, the most important issue. The proposed four year benefit ban only comes into force when the so called 'emergency brake' kicks in and that has to be agreed by all other EU members and they can decide when it is removed, oh and it's a graduated ban, oh and child benefits will be paid at the level of claimants country, oh and it doesn't matter a fig anyway because even the full on proposal won't stop migrants coming here.
If he had anything about him he should say (as promised) that this deal does not represent a significant improvement in Britain's EU membership and so I'm recommending a leave vote.
But it was never about that was it? The referendum was simply to see off UKIP and the right wing of his own party and to gain an electoral advantage over Labour prior to the general election.
In other words a pro EU PM who is prepared to risk Britain leaving the EU for purely political advantage.
You can be both pro EU and pro referendum. In fact both the Tories and Greens suggested that in their manifestos. Labour and the Libs fell down because they preached to the electorate - "we know what's best for you so don't worry yourselves about it". The electorate either didn't believe them or got pissed off.
purplenose
Well-Known Member
All you really have to do is take a look at what is happening in Europe regardless of what they say it grows ever closer to being virtually one state. A bigger version of Yugoslavia as was, or the Soviet Union for a larger example. Take a look and see what became of them, do you want your country to be part of that with every chance that it will end in the same way? The whole thing will simply not work and is already showing signs of disintegrating.
The fact is that by staying in we are going to open the gates of hell, vote out and there is a risk of course but whatever the consequences of voting out maybe there will be some chance of dealing with those consequences. It beggars belief that anyone would vote to stay in on the back of what the likes of the Cameron will peddle, truly scary.
The fact is that by staying in we are going to open the gates of hell, vote out and there is a risk of course but whatever the consequences of voting out maybe there will be some chance of dealing with those consequences. It beggars belief that anyone would vote to stay in on the back of what the likes of the Cameron will peddle, truly scary.