EU referendum deal (title edited)

[Len Rum]

How much do we pay to be in the eu??, does everyone pay the same amount??,

About 10bn a year.
We are one of the biggest contributors.
Not everyone pays the same.
Countries with the biggest economies pay more.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Simples.
We stay in,no change, things carry on as normal,no risk.
We leave,big risk (mainly economic ,also legal), but also lots of opportunities, we could flourish outside the EU and learn more about ourselves as a country.

Hate to say it long term Britain is on a continual century plus long decline as has happened to al great powers, as with all great powers a lot of countries have scores to settle and they will use an exit to do that. But Britains decline is not going to be too different in or out, it is like old age and will happen slowly and surely .

As I've said before in and out is pretty irrelevant and won't make anywhere near the difference most people believe as in or out won't solve the resource challenge, the demographic challenge, the immigration driving growth challenge , the NHS challenge, and it won't solve the fact the UK is a big Ponzi scheme.

All this vote is doing is giving both sides the chance to pretend in or out is the solution and out off dealing with anything real for another 5 or 10 years and is focusing people on debating around the edges.

Both in and out are going to be hard and sure as night is day money saved in one bueraucracy will go into another and every market or region that benefits coming out another two will get hurt.

I just wonder if out wins who will get the blame in 5 years when nothing has improved. My bet is first the celts will and there will be an English push for independence and then ultimately England will be like Italy with a North south divide much bigger than it is now.
I do wonder how long real problems can be punted into the future by finding other people to blame for our own refusal to take the actions that need to be taken and make some really deep fundamental calls on what our values are as a society

 

[Chancy Termites]

How much do we pay to be in the eu??, does everyone pay the same amount??,

In 2013 we paid in about 9.5 billion pounds more than we got out. 2015 was 10.5 billion. It's forecast to rise fairly substantially over the next few years.

Germany is the biggest net contributor, we are the 2nd. Holland and Sweden are also relatively big contributors considering their population size. France, Italy, Finland, Austria and Denmark all also pay more in than they get out.

We could do a lot for ourselves with that 10+ billion quid per year.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Why do people think we won't have any influence in the world or indeed in Europe if we vote out?

We will be much stronger with a more defined British v'iew and opinion of the world rather than the kaleidoscopic European view that we're obliged to support when we're harnessed to Europe.

 

[adrian99]

Cameron is a conservative.
Conservatives are fundamentally averse to europe.
So why is he so desperate to stay in?
The french and german people have a different take on democracy to us, what with rent controls, 40 hour week etc. things that the tory party has opposed in every way.
I wonder, could leaving open the way to the EU passing laws that disadvantage our money men in the banking sector ( tory to a man )
Canary Wharf moving to Frankfurt? The immigrant problem could just be a smokescreen, .....whatever . Wouldn't be the first time a politician has misled the public, surely wont be the last.

Another who understands so little, heard of Tony Benn, Bob Crow or read the 1983 Labour Manifesto? Many in Labour used to favour democracy Tony Benn said joining was “the most formal surrender of British sovereignty and parliamentary democracy that has ever occurred in our history”. Both Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell are Eurosceptic but have temporarily forgotten for some reason. New York has rent controls and is not in the Eu. The modern Labour Party is all for the Eu which is astonishing after seeing how the people of Greece were treated and their democratic wishes ignored. I happen to agree with some form of rent control, that the pendulum has swung too far against workers and I hate the Tories but with a sovereign Parliament we can change any laws and every 5 years remove a government. The decision to Remain or Leave should be based on democracy, our ability to make our own laws and sack our lawmakers every 5 years and within the Eu this can never happen.

 

[BigJoe#1]

About 10bn a year.
We are one of the biggest contributors.
Not everyone pays the same.
Countries with the biggest economies pay more.

Isn't £10bn the net contribution.....? A hell of a lot of money, though the money men say it's something like 0.5% or 1% of our GDP, so its nothing to worry about.... yeah right!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Ultimately, the outcome of a domestic referendum has as much influence on human progress as King Canute had on tidal patterns.

 

[mat]

I predict this will be the basis of Cameron's next public speech....

I promised you a referendum before the end of 2017 and I will deliver. I came to this summit hoping to secure a deal that would be the best for Britain, and whilst I achieved many of my stated objectives I don't think what was finally offered was the best deal for Britain. I also told you that I would only accept the best deal.

Therefore I will not accept what has been offered and I will return to the negotiating table to make sure we get the best for Britain. What this means is that it would not be wise for the British people to vote in a referendum in June but for us to come back to the negotiating table and secure a better, the best deal for Britain. I promised you we'd have a referendum by the end of 2017 and I also promised I'd get the best deal for Britain and I intend to deliver on both.

Which if you summarise it means "I've failed"

You sure you've not seen his speech early?

That looks spot on what he'll say.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Ultimately, the outcome of a domestic referendum has as much influence on human progress as King Canute had on tidal patterns.

The tide comes in as blue moon and the country argue about whether to sit on the yellow or purple thrones and whose fault it is that the tide keeps rolling in. If it didn't point to just how deluded the press and much of the country is and just how naive the blame game has become it would be funny!

 

[EalingBlue2]

Isn't £10bn the net contribution.....? A hell of a lot of money, though the money men say it's something like 0.5% or 1% of our GDP, so its nothing to worry about.... yeah right!

10 billion won't go along way to potential losses in trade deals or replacing all the new civil service and infrastructure to deal with the 1000's of new treaties and agreement s and enforcing them. The U.K. Could blow this amount in one crappy millitary deal

10 billion is a piddling amount to take any major risk for