Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Maybe not if we get out before the whole unworkable thing ( by your own admission) collapses.
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purplenose
Well-Known Member
The reality is that if we pull out we really dont know what will happen and that scares people, but simple common sense a little understanding of history should tell you what is happening now and what is almost certain to happen if we stay in, and that really should scare people alot more.
For me the EU has completely undermined democracy in the UK and every minute people in this country lose their democratic right more and more.
UK democracy has come a long way evolving over a millenium, we introduced heabeus corpus as part of the Magna Carta which allowed no man to be inprisoned without proper trial which is a highlighted one of the first steps towards democracy. The UK population has struggled over the years for universal suffrage, women especially and have pushed for various reform acts which eventually allowed universal vote for everybody over 18.
It seems Cameron is happy to easily hand over power which the British people have fought for back to the EU. Nobody in this country voted for droopy faced Merkal to dictate on foreign policy, nobody voted for Junker to swan around in his private jet and nobody voted for Donald Tusk.
UK democracy has come a long way evolving over a millenium, we introduced heabeus corpus as part of the Magna Carta which allowed no man to be inprisoned without proper trial which is a highlighted one of the first steps towards democracy. The UK population has struggled over the years for universal suffrage, women especially and have pushed for various reform acts which eventually allowed universal vote for everybody over 18.
It seems Cameron is happy to easily hand over power which the British people have fought for back to the EU. Nobody in this country voted for droopy faced Merkal to dictate on foreign policy, nobody voted for Junker to swan around in his private jet and nobody voted for Donald Tusk.
Maybe not if we get out before the whole unworkable thing ( by your own admission) collapses.
I'm not convinced that leaving will actually protect us when the whole unworkable thing collapses.
Edit: Hopefully the whole unworkable thing will collapse, but it will not for decades and until it does I'm not sure we'll be better out.
purplenose
Well-Known Member
I'm not convinced that leaving will actually protect us when the whole unworkable thing collapses.
Edit: Hopefully the whole unworkable thing will collapse, but it will not for decades and until it does I'm not sure we'll be better out.
The collapse has started on many levels politically financially economically and socially.....if your in a plane and the wings fall off it usually better to jump out and use your parachute sharpish instead of waiting until your to low for it too open?
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Dave's let it be known he's " battling for Britain" to get the best deal.
Deal?
What deal?
What's on the table is worth about two bob, will probably be watered down to 1s/6d by the other member states and then end up being unpicked by the European Parliament.
Carry on Dave.
Deal?
What deal?
What's on the table is worth about two bob, will probably be watered down to 1s/6d by the other member states and then end up being unpicked by the European Parliament.
Carry on Dave.
purplenose
Well-Known Member
I am really struggling to see any part of this deal that will make a difference to the everyday person, and therefore the way they will vote. The things that people on the street are saying concerns them have been just about totally ignored. Yet within the next hours we will no doubt be treated to honest Dave bumbling on about how well we (he) has done out of it.
This arrogant indifference to the electorate could yet see us vote out.
This arrogant indifference to the electorate could yet see us vote out.
hilts
Well-Known Member
Even if he gets everything he is trying for it will still be a shit deal, the benefit package and trying to halt sending child benefit abroad is quite laughable really, it will go like Scotland people will vote to stay in through fear, too many spineless fuckers about
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
The deal is the emperor's new clothes. There's a great Matt cartoon in the DT this morning with two wrestlers suggesting the whole negotiation is stage managed.
The EU is gonna be the greatest drain on those European economies who have a half decent economy to start with and God knows where this blind alley of political 'union' is going! The minute you get a Eurocrat talking about political union you can see where it's going, and it will almost certainly NOT be in the interests of the UK.
The EU is gonna be the greatest drain on those European economies who have a half decent economy to start with and God knows where this blind alley of political 'union' is going! The minute you get a Eurocrat talking about political union you can see where it's going, and it will almost certainly NOT be in the interests of the UK.
Len Rum
Well-Known Member
Make or break decision time for Boris.
If he falls in behind Dave ( as some are suggesting on the back of some promise on "sovereignty" Whatever TF that means) , then I think his PM ambitions are gone. Everyone knows his sentiments are anti EU and if he plays safe and meekly tows the pro EU line then he will be seen as a bottler.
On the other hand if he follows his anti EU convictions he could become the 'big hitter' that the OUT lobby needs. The public would then have a chance to judge him as a serious player leading that campaign. Rise to the occasion and it would tremendously boost his PM credentials when Dave eventually exits stage left.
If we voted to leave he would be nailed on as the next PM, but even in the event of the In campaign being successful I still think he wouldn't have harmed his chances in what will still be a Eurosceptic Tory Party and country ( particularly if the vote is close).
Cometh the hour, cometh the Bo Jo?
If he falls in behind Dave ( as some are suggesting on the back of some promise on "sovereignty" Whatever TF that means) , then I think his PM ambitions are gone. Everyone knows his sentiments are anti EU and if he plays safe and meekly tows the pro EU line then he will be seen as a bottler.
On the other hand if he follows his anti EU convictions he could become the 'big hitter' that the OUT lobby needs. The public would then have a chance to judge him as a serious player leading that campaign. Rise to the occasion and it would tremendously boost his PM credentials when Dave eventually exits stage left.
If we voted to leave he would be nailed on as the next PM, but even in the event of the In campaign being successful I still think he wouldn't have harmed his chances in what will still be a Eurosceptic Tory Party and country ( particularly if the vote is close).
Cometh the hour, cometh the Bo Jo?