EU referendum deal (title edited)

  • Thread starter Thread starter mat
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
Is that the same Chaimberlain who declared war on Germany when Hitler ordered an invasion of the Poland? Poor analogy, given Tim's comment.
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We were bound by a treaty with Poland; it wasn't a moral decision. And we honoured that treaty only because Chamberlain realised he'd been completely lied to by Hitler. Plus it was never really made clear how, once war was declared, there was pressure for an accommodation with Germany even in May 1940 when the German aries were sweeping through Western Europe.

The point is that the EU is built on a set of lies and deliberate misinformation. Originally it was the lie that you could have a trading bloc without financial integration. The the lie that you could have financial integration without political integration. Then it was the lie that you could integrate countries who were financial basket cases.

I'm all in favour of a trading bloc but the EU has gone way, way beyond that. It's like FFP - everyone tells us what a good thing it is but the reality is that it benefits the powerful few at the expense of everyone else.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
We were bound by a treaty with Poland; it wasn't a moral decision. And we honoured that treaty only because Chamberlain realised he'd been completely lied to by Hitler. Plus it was never really made clear how, once war was declared, there was pressure for an accommodation with Germany even in May 1940 when the German aries were sweeping through Western Europe.

The point is that the EU is built on a set of lies and deliberate misinformation. Originally it was the lie that you could have a trading bloc without financial integration. The the lie that you could have financial integration without political integration. Then it was the lie that you could integrate countries who were financial basket cases.

I'm all in favour of a trading bloc but the EU has gone way, way beyond that. It's like FFP - everyone tells us what a good thing it is but the reality is that it benefits the powerful few at the expense of everyone else.
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Fwiw I don't think that Chamberlain ever believed what Hitler was telling him.
 
Hoping for Brexit.

We'd be able to trade with Africa without the nasty trade sanctions levied on Africa by the EU.

Cameron's deal isn't set in stone and the EU legally don't have to deliver on the agreement.
 
If it was so good in the EU and so safe, why is it Dave and the vast majority of his fellow stay in voters normally spend their time bemoaning the thing and demanding change at a minimum and threatening exit from it?

We don't want a United States of Europe.
 
bluetonium said:
Just seen the leave campaign referred to as the 'Brexit'. On that alone I'm for staying in at this point.

Will review my decision in May, until then I will be ignoring the waffle and hot air.
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Pretty much this.

I keep tooting and growing the more I reaserch it.
 
Not sure which way im going to vote yet. I was going to vote to stay in the EU but now they are using scare tactics ( "Our national security is at risk if we leave") im considering going for no. Pisses me off them trying to scare people into voting for something.

Both arguments are the same, that we will be better off, but its choosing who you actually believe and to be honest i believe neither.
 
Len Rum said:
It hardly touches the issue of benefits. A four year graduated reduction of in work benefits over a one off seven year period (emergency brake) and then after this we can't apply these reductions again( I'm still not sure whether we have to get permission from the other member states for the emergency brake).
The impact on the numbers of migrant workers will be minimal and it will save about 2s/6d.
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I agree it is small beer.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
The point is that the EU is built on a set of lies and deliberate misinformation. Originally it was the lie that you could have a trading bloc without financial integration. The the lie that you could have financial integration without political integration. Then it was the lie that you could integrate countries who were financial basket cases.
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Well said.

And the very simple lie that you can have political integration without a common language.

Another is the lack of a standard practice for people to have a say in the evolution of the EU. It was bad enough that Ireland had to repeat referendums until the EU got what they wanted but where were the referendums in the other countries for all these changes to voting etc? How people don't see that as devious is beyond me.

The EU has grown into something that I think most people never wanted. It is now a PC version of the Soviet Block. Sadly if the UK votes to stay in I think the EU will become even more controlling for all of Europe and God knows where that'll bring us.

The best thing for everyone imo is for Britain to go alone for a few years, for the EU to drop some ridiculous notions and eventually for them to attract Britain back into an EU 2.0 that is truly for the people. Everyone's a winner. :-)

Butterflies and rainbows galore!
 
whp.blue said:
How so ?
Nato has been the main reason for peace and that is nothing to do with the EU or it's predecessor the Common Market
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The history of the coal and steel partnerships with Germany and France that ultimately led to the Common Market and EU was driven by the need to avoid more wars!
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Peace and security in Western Europe has ensued because of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, all military decisions,
all major purchases, every military exercise, has been within the remit of that organisation. There is no separate group
within the EU cooperating on defence, to my knowledge, and even if there were it would not overule any NATO directives.
Whether we're in or out of the EU, our security has nothing to do with it.
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What you said is largely true but ignores the origins of the EU to prevent more wars
 
whp.blue said:
I think I am, but my point is still valid, the CBI cannot be viewed as a paragon of impartial virtue on why we should stay in.
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Absolutely no one in this debate can be viewed as a paragon of virtue, but I'd argue that the cbi had at least researched it's members and is a professional institution.

The chap above just posted breibart as a source, presumably you take as much issue with that being quoted as well?
 
Please could a pro-EU poster sell me the benefits of having legislation introduced by a committee of appointees rather than by a government directly elected by citizens?

Thanks.
 
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