EU referendum

[Metal Biker]

Labour didn't change European policy and couldn't.

The commons can't abolish the lords, they've tried in the past. Besides, only having a one house system would be an awful idea, the Americans have it spot on here in terms of system.

Voting on EU matters, or not, won't change the problems with the UK political system as per the original point 4.

The transatlantic trade agreement hasn't been passed so when was it vetoed?

Your politicians have had plenty of chances to get their house in order. The EU has never stopped them, they've never tried and you've all kept voting for the cunts.

Again, you're focusing on Britain changing EUROPEAN policies. I said that Britain would be in command of it's OWN policies and you stated that Britain leaving the EU would affect democracy in Britain.
Ergo, the question I put to you was "how does Britain NOT being in the EU, mean that BRITISH democracy on BRITISH laws and BRITISH matters, will be affected by not being a member of a union which will no longer have any influence on BRITISH democracy?"

I couldn't give a flying fig about Britain's influence on EU matters in the result of an exit, because we'll be keeping our own affairs in order. That was the point; the EU won't affect democracy in Britain as they'd have no influence on the democratic process or results. Political union would be abolished, trade unions would remain unaffected as nations like China, Mexico, the US, Canada, all trade with the EU, without any influence or say on EU policies either. (except for a few meaningless 'pandering' words by the Prez)

TTIP should be another glaring reason as to why being in the EU is a bad idea, as despite growing, vocal opposition to it, the EU delegates and Commission is doing everything is can to implement it as law. As of this moment TTIP is still being proposed, despite the opposition to it. You'd have thought they'd have taken the hint by now.

And what do you mean by 'cunts'? You mean the Conservatives? Well, given our system of voting parties in power (one which ALL parties abide by and are affected), the Conservatives persuaded more of the British electorate to vote for them rather than the Labour candidates. Unless you propose that a Labour party winning a similar 35% of votes of the electorate (meaning 65% were in favour of voting for someone else) is in some way more ethical?

I'm not the biggest fan of the Tories, goodness no, but this is how things are done for the time being. No winning party will be likely to change FPTP as they were elected upon that principle (Labour got in three times and didn't change it either) It might take a brave party to include it in their manifesto that if given a majority they'll change it, we'll have to wait and see. But let's not forget that voting turnout has been less than 70% for years. That's a lot of people who heard both manifestos and thought "bollocks to this, they're all cunts", so don't think it's a universal belief that Brits love Cam, but many won't do anything to change it.

The EU does not directly affect the result of a general election, no. But they are asking for more powers to be given to them to the point it renders a general election even more pointless. Since many MP's pander to the EU directives of integration, removing "temptation" shall we say, might make them focus more on helping Britain rather than just removing responsibilities and handing them to unelected officials in Brussels.

 

[aguero93:20]

you stated that Britain leaving the EU would affect democracy in Britain.

No, I didn't. I said it wouldn't change and implied you face a poor excuse for democracy with only a 2 house system, one unelected, first past the post in the other and no regional power, with endemic corruption.

 

[aguero93:20]

And what do you mean by 'cunts'?

98% or so of politicians. Let's put it this way, I sort of understand the support for trump despite despising the ****.

 

[aguero93:20]

TTIP should be another glaring reason as to why being in the EU is a bad idea, as despite growing, vocal opposition to it, the EU delegates and Commission is doing everything is can to implement it as law. As of this moment TTIP is still being proposed, despite the opposition to it. You'd have thought they'd have taken the hint by now.

Hasn't been passed, not really a point. Come back if it does.

 

[aguero93:20]

I couldn't give a flying fig about Britain's influence on EU matters in the result of an exit, because we'll be keeping our own affairs in order. That was the point; the EU won't affect democracy in Britain as they'd have no influence on the democratic process or results.

Point 2. Worry more about your influence on your own parliament.

 

[Metal Biker]

98% or so of politicians. Let's put it this way, I sort of understand the support for trump despite despising the ****.

So what do you propose instead?
If politicians are not your cup of tea, then who should be responsible to govern jurisdictions and the general day to day running of facilities? I don't know if you're against politicians in general or the idea of career politics itself. But someone has to do the job, and 'politicians' are the ones who put their names forward to do it. We elect the ones we feel are the best to do the job. I would like to hear your alternative suggestion for who we'd get to do the tasks required of politicians. Running a national budget isn't easy.

 

[aguero93:20]

Unless you propose that a Labour party winning a similar 35% of votes of the electorate (meaning 65% were in favour of voting for someone else) is in some way more ethic

I mean if 33% of the people across an area that can support 3 MPs think the same way they should have a chance at one.

*spits* :) Look at UKIPs results in the last election, is that a fair Democratic reflection within Britain? It's gerrymandering.

 

[aguero93:20]

So what do you propose instead?
If politicians are not your cup of tea, then who should be responsible to govern jurisdictions and the general day to day running of facilities? I don't know if you're against politicians in general or the idea of career politics itself. But someone has to do the job, and 'politicians' are the ones who put their names forward to do it. We elect the ones we feel are the best to do the job. I would like to hear your alternative suggestion for who we'd get to do the tasks required of politicians. Running a national budget isn't easy.

Real local power and direct democracy would rein the cunts in or at least introduce greater democracy and let's face it, the technology we have now allows for it. Better a national decision on a budget than one made by a failed teacher. At the very least we'd have accountability for our own decisions and real democracy. EU doesn't solve this problem but neither does leaving.

 

[CityStu]

Hasn't been passed, not really a point. Come back if it does.

THIS is the problem. What if we vote to stay in and then they pass TTIP? Do you think you'll get a second chance to vote out?

This summer you are going to vote to leave the EU or stay in the EU on its current trajectory, not to stay in as the EU is now.

That means you have to consider the EU's stance on things like TTIP and Turkey's membership when you vote.

 

[Helmet Cole]

I'll admit to being a federalist with protected powers for local government.

By local government I mean councils though, not 500 or so pricks ruling a country of 64 million or so, that's feudalism.

Fair enough