This is part of the problem. The inners love to shout about all the independent studies that support their case, but I doubt there is any such thing. Research costs money, and he who pays the piper calls the tune.
So being in the EU stops this, or just means it doesn't matter? No thanks.The 5th largest economy and one on a century plus of decline from being by far the largest and losing importance and relevance all the time .
Quite. It seems true of both sides, unless of course you have already made your mind up to believe only one side of the argument.So basically, if you don't like the analysis, just file it under "made up lies from people with an agenda".
It's this sort of "I'm not listening, I'm not listening, I'm not listening" that makes me wonder why it's worth trying to have a sensible discussion.
Quite. It seems true of both sides, unless of course you have already made your mind up to believe only one side of the argument.
The inner a can give you facts , the reality is today, look around you, look at trade figures, look at the economy. If we stay that is what is there, tomorrow will be like today. Inner a don't need to make up what will happen if we stay in as we are in. It's like asking someone to prove the sun will come up tomorrow and set tomorrow night.
It is the outers who pretend to give facts but facts to them is a series of hopeful calls on Europe needing us desperately and going out of their way to give us a better deal than before and that somehow outside of trade deals with Europe, US and the pacific Britain will magically sail along having been handed everything. It is Sturgeon optimism , I didn't believe her on Scotland and I don't believe the brexit optimism either. I don't think Scotland would have collapsed had they voted out but I don't believe it would have been good for them.
Don't make me laugh seriously do you believe that guff. Why are having to recruit so many doctors into this country? Do you know how long it takes to fully train a doctor ? Just deciding to train people doesn't just happen over night. Its no surprise with the ballooning of insecure ZHC that this country has become so shit at productivity. As has been proven so many times immigration has a positive effect on the economy contrary to popular channel 5 poverty/benefit porn belief the majority of them come over to work and earn money not park their arses on benefits.
As much as I despise Cameron an this whole campaign cutting my nose off to spite my face is the main reason I won't be joining the loons from Brexit.
Racist ;-)I don't think exiters are denying the fact that we will need immigration to help the country. What we are saying is that will be a policy based on what we need so yes doctors and others to fill skill shortages from all over the world ,like Canada, Australia, USA and any other country has.
At the moment we have a system where anyone from the eu can move here whether we have that skill shortage or not. I would prefer a system which plugs resources and skills globally not just cos they are in the Euro. Immigration into the uk has been massively important to the success of the U.K and should continue to be so.
Chuckling.Racist ;-)
TTIP will happen for Britain in or out of the EU the only question is to go in as part of the EU agreement or go in later on terms that there has been no chance to negotiate on and very much as a small party agreeing with big parties , TTIP and TPP are what is happening and like it or not they will happen. Nritaim can sit outside and forgo these opportunities or sign up . I am not necessarily an advocate but with giants like the US. EU, China moving to joining TPP there will be Ko choice. These are not EU things they are all the worlds major markets moving to expand trade and standardise some rules.Could an Inner please give me the facts on the prospect of Turkey joining, the potential TTIP arrangement, what will happen about the migrant crisis, whether we will need to bail out any more EU countries, if we'll end up having to join the Euro and the creation of an EU army please?
The EU now is so different to how it was 40, 20, 10, even 5 years ago. A vote In isn't a vote for the status quo, it's a vote to continue on the current trajectory.
No being in the EU means we maintain a voice as we decline to 6th 7th 8th which given growth, demographics, technology etc is inevitableSo being in the EU stops this, or just means it doesn't matter? No thanks.
The US is a great example with 10-20 million "illegals" (no one knows) as for Aus and Canada, big empty countries with huge natural resources sitting alone and in trade arrangements with much bigger countries , also both are attracting immigrants from the Pacific ring where they now look to and taking in Australia's case approx 1% of the population every year.Racist ;-)
The inner a can give you facts , the reality is today, look around you, look at trade figures, look at the economy. If we stay that is what is there, tomorrow will be like today. Inner a don't need to make up what will happen if we stay in as we are in. It's like asking someone to prove the sun will come up tomorrow and set tomorrow night.
There is no British interest that's the hilarity of it, there are a multitude of interest groups and governments act in the interests of a few and disinterested of many the idea of national interest is one of the biggest cons there is, maybe it was an apt term during the Battle of Britain but 99.9% of the time it is just a politicians term to silence dissent and to try and avoid questionsOur trade with Europe is falling ( Every year since 1999 ONS) today, the EU economy is showing little growth and certainly not better than the UK if not even a bit less ( Again depending who to believe and what numbers you look at) today, while within the EU the PIG countries as well as France and Italy are all but bankrupt
Of far more importance is to look at the changes both on stated aims and application of common sense, the EU is pushing towards a full federal state where as an example the British army will become a part of an EU army (Article 42 ) and the Euro will become compulsory.
There is the question of if the EU is even stable, there are major political shifts to the right in almost every member state, Austria & Hungary have closed their borders, Poland have refused point blank to take any migrants no matter what the EU dictates, yet not only do the migrants keep coming but a further planed EU expansion adds 77 million Turks to the mix from oct 2016 ( Visa free travel as part of the deal that gave Turkey 3 billion to tighten up border control).
These are NOT in the main skilled workers adding to productivity, but economic migrants where even a minimum wage is a huge leap up in living standard, so how will adding these kind of numbers no matter how spread out around Europe ( Difficult because the ethnic groups themselves are forming ghettos leading to social unrest in those area`s, as well as member states refusing to take the numbers ) do anything except drag down the living standards of the native populations without friction.
We are voting for far more than a few meaningless figures of a dubious nature, self determination in an ever changing world where the elected government put the British interest first, rather than ruled by a committee of people all with a different agenda, none of which will be the UKs best interest.
Have you got the lottery numbers for this weekend?No being in the EU means we maintain a voice as we decline to 6th 7th 8th which given growth, demographics, technology etc is inevitable
There is no British interest that's the hilarity of it, there are a multitude of interest groups and governments act in the interests of a few and disinterested of many the idea of national interest is one of the biggest cons there is, maybe it was an apt term during the Battle of Britain but 99.9% of the time it is just a politicians term to silence dissent and to try and avoid questions
A press release form the EU yesterday reminds us that the accession of Turkey to EU membership is to be 're-energised' and will 'continue at an accelerated pace'.
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-1664_en.htm
Turkey would rapidly become the EU's most populous country, and part of Asia directly connected to the war torn, terrorist infested middle east and about as big as the UK and France combined would be in the 'European' Union.
I think your quote misrepresents the article somewhat, which is a lengthy and detailed press relese with only a single line in there about re-energized and accelerated pace.
The ft's analysis is not so enthusiastic, citing the umpteen obstacles to a visa-waiver, let alone EU membership.
<I can't post the link since the FT just re-routes it, trying to flog you a subscription>
Google FT Brussels prepares legal groundwork on visa-free travel for Turks
So, you have no idea what would happen if we left then? I understand your logic that at least we know what we're getting with the EU, but the same logic would have prevented the wright brothers from experimenting with their lighter than air flying machines. The journey to Australia would be a fair bit slower.The inner a can give you facts , the reality is today, look around you, look at trade figures, look at the economy. If we stay that is what is there, tomorrow will be like today. Inner a don't need to make up what will happen if we stay in as we are in. It's like asking someone to prove the sun will come up tomorrow and set tomorrow night.
It is the outers who pretend to give facts but facts to them is a series of hopeful calls on Europe needing us desperately and going out of their way to give us a better deal than before and that somehow outside of trade deals with Europe, US and the pacific Britain will magically sail along having been handed everything. It is Sturgeon optimism , I didn't believe her on Scotland and I don't believe the brexit optimism either. I don't think Scotland would have collapsed had they voted out but I don't believe it would have been good for them.
How many lines should it take to say that the accession process for Turkey is to be re-energised and is to continue at an accelerated pace?
One is entirely sufficient, and if the EU chooses to bury it away in the middle of a large press release then what does that matter?
There are 35 'chapters' to be agreed for Turkey's accession to EU membership and the press release says that work will re-start on chapter 33.
EU membership for Turkey is very much back on the agenda.
Turkey's government recently took over a critical newspaper and turned it into a pro-government one, and journalists are regulalry arrested in Turkey.
Something to bear in mind while deciding how to vote in our referendum.