EU referendum

[Metal Biker]

No, I didn't. I said it wouldn't change and implied you face a poor excuse for democracy with only a 2 house system, one unelected, first past the post in the other and no regional power, with endemic corruption.

I did not propose we have a two house system at all. We have a multiple house system, it's just that there are two main parties with the most support that often end up competing for governing parliament. For a while the Liberal Democrats were widely supported; had they continued we could have ended up with a 4-way 'battle' with the rise of UKIP. The rise of the SNP, despite having a smaller number of overall voters in comparison to seats won, shows that yes, although the Conservates are the party in power and Labour are the official opposition, had the SNP won more seats (by having more candidates open to be voted for across the UK) that overtook Labour, THEY would be the party in opposition. That's nothing like the United States, for example.

Democracy to me isn't vote for red or blue, it's vote for the best candidate and the most votes wins that seat and becomes the representative of my area in whihc I live that directly affects me. They are MY voice in parliament. I voted for a different candidate, the opposing candidate formed part of my local council, but my local council is allied with the political party that failed to gain enough seats to form a majority. That ruling government therefore tends to give more support to the councils which supported them over the ones that didn't, because there is only so much money to go around and lets face it, what is prompting them from excessively helping voters who rejected them? I may not like the result but that is democracy. The EU supercedes all that by giving power to an unelected commission, one which refuses to take the result of a people's vote into account (France, Netherlands, Ireland)

No, TTIP hasn't passed....yet. (Emphasis on yet) But they are trying despite all opposition to it. Will the people of Europe be given a vote on it? Will those members states who reject it not have to worry about it being imposed on their local governments? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[SWP's back]

As you have lectured us many times this is not right v left, on the first point you are right in the second point you'd be wrong, because however deeply damaging democracy is coming to the west with its short termism and protection of corruption and extreme wealth the alternative is worse

Sure.

 

[Bill]

Let's cut to the chase.

Which one will make me more money?

 

[EalingBlue2]

As this is a City forum it will be very interesting to look at Brexit from a City point of view. I would assume no more EU kids for the academy below the level of a Kelechi so the strategy there will be majorly effected and there will be a huge battle for English talent. Also I assume it would mean that many of our first team squad may not have been given work permits (that could be good and bad).

I would think there would have to be humongous changes in what constitutes special talent and a really long lag in any changes as otherwise the smaller sides and the championship would be bankrupted by any change .

 

[EalingBlue2]

Let's cut to the chase.

Which one will make me more money?

No one can possibly know and both sides would almost inevitably tell you what they want

 

[The perfect fumble]

Research European history from 1957 (when the ECSC was realised) to 1990 (which was the point I was making, not general European history and the feudal kings of old as a whole) and you'll see that during the pre-EU's formation from ECSC and EEC the number of conflicts between the European nations was....nil, aside from Eastern European nations trying to rid themselves of Communism or the little spat on our own shores regarding the troubles. But good shout bringing up the entirity of Britain's association with Europe, highlighting the number of times they've all tried at one point or another to eradicate our people from the face of the earth down to pure greed. Nothing says solidarity like "hey remember when we tried to eliminate you....quince? But hey, we good now, right? Just keep sending us money and allow our courts to overule your own. Did I mention they're not elected?"

The Nobel Peace Prize 2012 European Union (EU)....

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2012/eu-facts.html

Cooperation between Countries
After the decimation of the Second World War, reconciliation between Germany and France was an important step towards fostering peace in Europe. The two countries - which by then had fought three wars within the space of 70 years - built the European Coal and Steel Community together with four other countries in 1952. This organization became the foundation for an ever-broader cooperation within what has been known since 1993 as the European Union (EU).

In this time of economic and social unrest, the Norwegian Nobel Committee wished to reward the EU's successful struggle for peace, reconciliation and for democracy and human rights. When the community expanded to include additional countries during the 1970s and 1980s, democracy was a prerequisite for membership. After the fall of European communist regimes around 1990, the union was able to expand to include several countries in Central and Eastern Europe, where democracy had been strengthened and conflict checked. The Nobel Committee also believes that the question of EU membership is bolstering the reconciliation process after the wars in the Balkan States, and that the desire for EU membership has also promoted democracy and human rights in Turkey.

 

[TonyM]

As this is a City forum it will be very interesting to look at Brexit from a City point of view. I would assume no more EU kids for the academy below the level of a Kelechi so the strategy there will be majorly effected and there will be a huge battle for English talent. Also I assume it would mean that many of our first team squad may not have been given work permits (that could be good and bad).

I would think there would have to be humongous changes in what constitutes special talent and a really long lag in any changes as otherwise the smaller sides and the championship would be bankrupted by any change .

The visa system related to football needs to be fixed asap anyway but with an exit from the EU
It becomes even more important. It's how any business imports world class talent. I'd imagine it'd be very easy to give the Premiership a special sponsor status that could be reviewed on a regular basis to ensure its not abused.

We should have been allowed bring on that Iraqi kid or the UAE kid a few years ago. The fact that we couldn't but could have the pick of lesser EU potential shows another fundamental unfairness about the status quo. Should be fixed regardless.

 

[EalingBlue2]

As a confirmed federalist why not just say this than trying to say being in the EU is better for our country? Imagine there's no countries, its easy if you try - john Lennon.

I don't necessarily think it will be for the best I can't see our middle of the road politics surviving it will be pure capitalism or the opposite - unless technology gives us infinite energy for free or stops the fight for resources.

 

[EalingBlue2]

The visa system related to football needs to be fixed asap anyway but with an exit from the EU
It becomes even more important. It's how any business imports world class talent. I'd imagine it'd be very easy to give the Premiership a special sponsor status that could be reviewed on a regular basis to ensure its not abused.

We should have been allowed bring on that Iraqi kid or the UAE kid a few years ago. The fact that we couldn't but could have the pick of lesser EU potential shows another fundamental unfairness about the status quo. Should be fixed regardless.

We would need pretty free rules not to be disadvantaged

 

[Metal Biker]

As this is a City forum it will be very interesting to look at Brexit from a City point of view. I would assume no more EU kids for the academy below the level of a Kelechi so the strategy there will be majorly effected and there will be a huge battle for English talent. Also I assume it would mean that many of our first team squad may not have been given work permits (that could be good and bad).

I would think there would have to be humongous changes in what constitutes special talent and a really long lag in any changes as otherwise the smaller sides and the championship would be bankrupted by any change .

Why would there be no more kids from the EU?

A Brexit from the EU doesn't mean an exit from the EEA.It's an end to a political union with Europe, not to everything else such as free movement of people.