EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
Status
Not open for further replies.
BigJoe#1 said:
So... The Geeeks are revolting, The Austrian PM has resigned on the back of the right wing fascists getting big support.

The EU is uniting Europe.... I'm not so sure

My first point that needs addressing by the Remainions is... Do you really think that a one size fits all currency and economy will work across such a diverse range of countries?
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To be fair to the likes of Chippy with one and a half feet in the remain camp he has identified the euro issue as the main reason why the whole eu project will go tits up, nobody can take you up on that question based on the euro in its current state - full fiscal union or dissolution of the currency.

it's good to see Roger Daltry backing up comments I made on a previous post about the eu's austerity driven impact on many parts of Europe these are facts which many in this referendum are arguing about not receiving.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...bunch-of-fing-useless-w-and-backs-Brexit.html
 
AlgarveBlu said:
To be fair to the likes of Chippy with one and a half feet in the remain camp he has identified the euro issue as the main reason why the whole eu project will go tits up, nobody can take you up on that question based on the euro in its current state - full fiscal union or dissolution of the currency.

it's good to see Roger Daltry backing up comments I made on a previous post about the eu's austerity driven impact on many parts of Europe these are facts which many in this referendum are arguing about not receiving.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...bunch-of-fing-useless-w-and-backs-Brexit.html
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I agree with you comments regarding the Euro. To me the question is more about the potential risk around Brexit or tha almost certain disaster that Remain will deliver. I just do not think it readable to have the one size fits all solution... It literally cannot work.
 
blueonblue said:
Yet still the media get away with branding people " The Far right" for having the audacity to object to unfettered migration, just as they will refer to a group of loons trying to prevent freedom of speech as "Anti fascists" when their actions are the very definition of a fascist.
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You think that's bad, try criticising Israeli foreign policy. You'll be in Nuremberg before you can say anti-semite!
 
What i do find interesting is that there seems to be worries about the economy and how it will effect peoples pockets being the only real argument put up by the inners. Whilst nothing anyone can say will make it certain that we will not be worse off, the same can be said for staying in, its a risk either way, thats life.

Yet when outers go a little deeper and beyond the economy on issues that are acknowledged to be happening now, and issues that are certain to come up as a result of staying in the outers seem only able to make accusations of extremism or racism, or even use the most silly term little Englander. Not one have I heard explaining why Cameron is right about immigration, security, and of course the certainty of an apocalyptic world war destroying the planet all because we selfishly and of course misguidedly vote out. Cant be bothered or playing the racist card simply does not cut the mustard...come on inners putting the economy aside, after all we know there is an element of risk either way with that...being in the EU didnt save us from the crash....apart from the economy what possible good reason can you come up with to stay in? Freedom democracy? better health care? fitter women maybe? Will the EU relegate the rags to conference north? Will they pass a law forbidding it to piss down on bank holidays and weekends?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
To quote Cameron.....

"If I cannot negotiate a great deal for the UK and strengthen our status in Europe then I will be campaigning for us to leave".

The Points of the deal he actually negotiated are below..... there is nothing there that we don't already have.

1. We do not have to join the Euro - We are already out of the Euro.

2. We can maintain our border controls - We already have border controls, though the right of EU citizens to come and live here remains.

3. The U.K. will not be part of further political integration. - U.K. Is already not committed to political union and integration, though on a personal note if we vote to remain in Europe that is probably the wrong road to take.

4. There will be tough new restrictions on EU migrants coming to Britain and claiming welfare. - The non payment of benefits to EU migrants has not been ratified and agreed as yet, the EU will not vote in it until the result of the referendum is known, the strong likelihood is that the EU will reject this point.

5. We have a commitment to reduce EU red tape - Seriously, have you ever heard such a ridiculous and meaningless statement as "we are committed to reducing EU red tape?" If ever there was a sentence that says nothing... Here it is.

The above my friends is the great deal Cameron has negotiated, or part negotiated on our behalf.... in a word it's pathetic and I hope you can all see that. For Cameron to believe that what he has negotiated will be the difference between war and peace in Europe is quite frankly ridiculous. Please lend your support and take the opportunity to Vote Leave!i
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Add to that those meaningless little so called victories where awarded to him in the hope he can convince us all to vote to remain in and it really does become laughable.
 
blueinsa said:
Add to that those meaningless little so called victories where awarded to him in the hope he can convince us all to vote to remain in and it really does become laughable.
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What the inners who want to stay in and reform the Eu from within don't understand is voting out is the only real chance of reforming the Eu. If we vote to stay in they will say well you had a referendum and voted to stay in , so the Eu will see that as a mandate to become more powerful. Fuck me it will get worse.

If the uk voted out , then the day after Germany and France and also Obama would all be on the first planes to London saying holy fuck please don't leave please, what is it you want , we will do anything for you to stay. Please tell us what you want and we will give it to you. We can then have a Europe which we want negotiated on our terms not theirs. There is no way they would not BEG us to stay and give us anything we want to do so. They would have to fund 1 billion a month lost so would be keen to do so.

I want out but those who want in should think about out because we can then dictate negotiation and be on the front foot, reforming the Eu from within.

By the way city, I am also available to negotiate our transfer deals over the summer....
 
I know polls can't be trusted but it seems as though the Brexit campaign is gathering momentum....

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...m-ICM-poll-UK-on-course-for-Brexit-Europe-Day

I think the biggest ally Brexit has is Cameron, he's an absolute liability to the Remanions. As I've said before, I think he has seriously mis-judged the mood of the Nation in calling this referendum so soon.... he had at least another year.

BTW, what event did you attend today....? what with it being Europe day and all that.
 
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I am a Brexiter but when talking to friends about this I come against one snag in the Brexit argument, funding. Now I understand those in the South East that want to leave because perhaps they don't get as much as funding but in this part of Wales and I imagine many areas of the country we get a lot of EU funding, we get a lot more funding here than what we put in.

The remainers say that the Government will not fill in the black hole left by no EU funding and to be honest I am inclined to agree with them. I have always been a Brexiter but this point is nagging at me because there is no answer for it. We need EU funding here, parts of South Wales have been left to rot by the UK government and I can't see them picking up the bill now.
 
Benarbia_is_god said:
I am a Brexiter but when talking to friends about this I come against one snag in the Brexit argument, funding. Now I understand those in the South East that want to leave because perhaps they don't get as much as funding but in this part of Wales and I imagine many areas of the country we get a lot of EU funding, we get a lot more funding here than what we put in.

The remainers say that the Government will not fill in the black hole left by no EU funding and to be honest I am inclined to agree with them. I have always been a Brexiter but this point is nagging at me because there is no answer for it. We need EU funding here, parts of South Wales have been left to rot by the UK government and I can't see them picking up the bill now.
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It's an unanswerable question until it needs answering. One thing we do know is that there is no reason to think the money that funds things now via a circuitous route won't continue after Brexit. The only real change would be the fewer hands it has to pass through. After all. It's paid by the UK in the first place.
 
Benarbia_is_god said:
I am a Brexiter but when talking to friends about this I come against one snag in the Brexit argument, funding. Now I understand those in the South East that want to leave because perhaps they don't get as much as funding but in this part of Wales and I imagine many areas of the country we get a lot of EU funding, we get a lot more funding here than what we put in.

The remainers say that the Government will not fill in the black hole left by no EU funding and to be honest I am inclined to agree with them. I have always been a Brexiter but this point is nagging at me because there is no answer for it. We need EU funding here, parts of South Wales have been left to rot by the UK government and I can't see them picking up the bill now.
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This is undoubtedly the biggest risk to Brexit.

There are no guarantees that the Westminster Government will from the £19bn they save continue to fund existing European projects. That said it is up to the voters, the electorate to ensure this does happen and funding us maintained.

I have always talked about the UK saving £8.5 bn which is the net figure which means we continue funding existing projects or variations thereof, which will still leave £8.5 bn saved. From that we could for example fund the British Steel production at £1m a day and still have £8,135m left to further invest in our own country.

I agree though that is the biggest economic risk to Brexit. Cameron out of spite as well as principle could well direct that surplus cash to his rich friends.
 
Benarbia_is_god said:
I am a Brexiter but when talking to friends about this I come against one snag in the Brexit argument, funding. Now I understand those in the South East that want to leave because perhaps they don't get as much as funding but in this part of Wales and I imagine many areas of the country we get a lot of EU funding, we get a lot more funding here than what we put in.

The remainers say that the Government will not fill in the black hole left by no EU funding and to be honest I am inclined to agree with them. I have always been a Brexiter but this point is nagging at me because there is no answer for it. We need EU funding here, parts of South Wales have been left to rot by the UK government and I can't see them picking up the bill now.
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It depends who is in government , if it is Tory as today the poorer areas (ie most of the U.K. Bar the south east) will suffer but I am sure under other governments it would be different. I do though think for Wales , Scotland and especially northernnireland Brexit will be very bad. The truth always has been that London and the south east are interested in London and the south east they care no more for north wales or Glasgow than Brussells does probably less
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I know polls can't be trusted but it seems as though the Brexit campaign is gathering momentum....

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...m-ICM-poll-UK-on-course-for-Brexit-Europe-Day

I think the biggest ally Brexit has is Cameron, he's an absolute liability to the Remanions. As I've said before, I think he has seriously mis-judged the mood of the Nation in calling this referendum so soon.... he had at least another year.

BTW, what event did you attend today....? what with it being Europe day and all that.
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I wouldn't trust any poll from any organisation that has an agenda or view on this be that the guardian or the express , only from neutral organisations. It is very easy to legitimately alter results by how you ask the question, what methodology you use even with a completely legitimate sample
 
EalingBlue2 said:
I wouldn't trust any poll from any organisation that has an agenda or view on this be that the guardian or the express , only from neutral organisations. It is very easy to legitimately alter results by how you ask the question, what methodology you use even with a completely legitimate sample
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For anyone skimming this thread and who is in danger of being taken in by this post, the poll was carried out by ICM. They work to an established, published, peer-reviewed methodology. More importantly they rely on their reputation to stay in business.

Read more here and download the raw data if you want (yes they even publish that) - http://www.icmunlimited.com/polls/

Read about the same poll on Reuters if you don't like the Express - http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKCN0Y01OM?irpc=932

Oh, and the question asked was exactly the same one that the referendum itself will use.
 
Chancy Termites said:
For anyone skimming this thread and who is in danger of being taken in by this post, the poll was carried out by ICM. They work to an established, published, peer-reviewed methodology. More importantly they rely on their reputation to stay in business.

Read more here and download the raw data if you want (yes they even publish that) - http://www.icmunlimited.com/polls/

Read about the same poll on Reuters if you don't like the Express - http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKCN0Y01OM?irpc=932

Oh, and the question asked was exactly the same one that the referendum itself will use.
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Perfect then if it is being done this way, political polling should be and I have worked for a pollster as credibility stands and falls on it but you only have to look at "credible" peer reviewed polling in the US if there is any hint of bias in it just the order of questions or asking definite va likely voters will change result.

This one may be great if I had time to review every methodology I may agree but nothing is gospel just look at the last general election where every single peer reviewed fantastic poll was wrong as they underestimate and underweighted for the status quo with many saying they wanted change and not turning up. At other times like Scotland in the GE or in 1997 the wave is estimated and the wave happens.
 
City Raider said:
The referendum has widen the divide in the Tory party to a chasm. If Corbyn was presiding over this mess it would be reported totally differently.
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Agreed. If Labour had a more electable leader they would be miles ahead by now. I think this is Camerons Waterloo though - either way win or lose the referendum he's toast. I know he had announced he'd be standing down before the next election in any case, still I don't think he'd planned his swan song to be quite like this. He's going to be the ragged beaten up old mutt staggering away and disappearing over the horizon with his tail firmly between his legs with barely anyone noticing.

Has to be up there as a contender for the most gutless, weakest, spineless and worst PM we've ever had!
 
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