EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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Monkfish said:
A bit like your bollocks of 'blood being spilt' if we stay in Europe? Though I am too most suprised that you could possibly get confused as a lefty, though I guess the far left and the far right share some values...
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Neither far left nor far right, do feel free to try again. It has truly shown those who support in up how they resort to bleating about racism or far right/leftism to anyone who voices opinions on why we are better off out.

Blood being spilt in Europe is not unheard of you know....have you had a good look at the history of the continent over the last couple of hundred years? So rather than call it bollocks why not give your opinion as to why it is bollocks? Back it up with some facts, tell me how the EU will prevent the continent from descending into wars and conflict...
 
A weak and pathetic argument by David Cameron this morning.

NATO has kept the west at peace as well as evolving civilisation. Scaremongering at it's worst!
 
Have to say that Cameron's latest Project Fear speech really takes the biscuit. Although currently an inner, he's doing a pretty good job in making me change my mind. If he was really interested in the defence of the nation, he wouldn't have invited Russian subs to have free rein in our territorial waters by scrapping the only capability we had in finding them in the 2010 SDSR.
 
west didsblue said:
Have to say that Cameron's latest Project Fear speech really takes the biscuit. Although currently an inner, he's doing a pretty good job in making me change my mind. If he was really interested in the defence of the nation, he wouldn't have invited Russian subs to have free rein in our territorial waters by scrapping the only capability we had in finding them in the 2010 SDSR.
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If you refer to the Nimrod then didnt you know he has sorted that with a juicy to order to Boeing! Far less superior aircraft but made much better financial sense you know!

Dont forget Putins air force, TU160s flying up the channel....Mr Putin or those before him would not have dared do that even 20 years ago, but now he does it just to deliver a huge noisy big white flying "wanker sign" to Cameron.
 
Chippy_boy said:
This is a fair point I think, and one to which I don't know the answer personally. But I can only speculate that there's more to it than just the financial implication of the tariff, perhaps to do with more generally how easy it is to do business. I cannot imagine other countries would have struggled for years to get a trade agreement in place if the "prize" for years of jumping through hoops was simply avoiding a 2% levy. There's surely more to it than that.
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Funnily enough the Remain campaign haven't mentioned the fact that WTO tariffs are currently just over 2%. Probably because it's devastating to their argument. ;)
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
It's getting fooking desperate now. They lose the arguments on economy, democracy and immigration so now they say it will be world war 3 if we leave. It's bollox. He is actually concerned that the vote is so close and so he will say anything to keep his job.

By the way can someone list please the renegotiation that Cameron achieved with the Eu before the referendum. I know he never did well but what did he actually get?
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Nothing, so far. The EU is going to vote on whether Cameron's EU reforms are implemented after the Brexit referendum, so if we vote to stay in and the EU rejects it, we're back to square one.
 
purplenose said:
If you refer to the Nimrod then didnt you know he has sorted that with a juicy to order to Boeing! Far less superior aircraft but made much better financial sense you know!

Dont forget Putins air force, TU160s flying up the channel....Mr Putin or those before him would not have dared do that even 20 years ago, but now he does it just to deliver a huge noisy big white flying "wanker sign" to Cameron.
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I am fully aware of the P8 order which sadly became necessary because of his gross error of judgement in 2010. It's a total embarrassment that we have to rely on the French, Americans and others to carry out our maritime reconnaissance until these new aircraft go into service. It's astonishing that he hasn't been held to account for this enormous waste of public money and putting this country at risk.
 
smudgedj said:
Don't worry about it. You can vote them out. Perks of being a self-governing democracy.
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That's the problem. We have a right of centre government that will shift further to the right after Brexit. And an unelectable opposition party
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Another vote for democracy hey....
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Look at it this way, I personally feel a lot of the reforms do answer many negatives 'Brexiters' (Some, not all), have about EU membership, so if the result is one that we stay in, the EU needs to vote in favour of the reforms, such as no further integration, British regain control over it's border policies, never joining the Euro single currency, no involvement with an EU Army etc, in order to ensure Britain does remain a happy member. If the EU refuses the reforms, or only accepts some of them, I can see a justified arguement for a second referendum in the very near future. For (most) Brexiters, it's a win-win in that sense although for many it'd still be a case of "it's a start...".
 
west didsblue said:
I am fully aware of the P8 order which sadly became necessary because of his gross error of judgement in 2010. It's a total embarrassment that we have to rely on the French, Americans and others to carry out our maritime reconnaissance until these new aircraft go into service. It's astonishing that he hasn't been held to account for this enormous waste of public money and putting this country at risk.
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That is because a very large percentage of the electorate are more than happy to swallow his lies, and believe that the sole problem this country faces financially is infact down to people claiming benefits and wishing not to be part of the gravy train for the select few that is the EU. Amidst all that he has been able to brush such things as the Nimrod...oh yes and the Harrier under the carpet.....or in the case of the Harrier, across the atlantic to the US Marine corp.
 
A
Mëtal Bikër said:
Look at it this way, I personally feel a lot of the reforms do answer many negatives 'Brexiters' (Some, not all), have about EU membership, so if the result is one that we stay in, the EU needs to vote in favour of the reforms, such as no further integration, British regain control over it's border policies, never joining the Euro single currency, no involvement with an EU Army etc, in order to ensure Britain does remain a happy member. If the EU refuses the reforms, or only accepts some of them, I can see a justified arguement for a second referendum in the very near future. For (most) Brexiters, it's a win-win in that sense although for many it'd still be a case of "it's a start...".
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what are the reforms proposed?
 
Cameron is the most irresponsible leader in the UK's history. Fancy allowing a referendum that will bankrupt the country and start a war in Europe!

Or he's a self interested fibber...
 
To quote Cameron.....

"If I cannot negotiate a great deal for the UK and strengthen our status in Europe then I will be campaigning for us to leave".

The Points of the deal he actually negotiated are below..... there is nothing there that we don't already have.

1. We do not have to join the Euro - We are already out of the Euro.

2. We can maintain our border controls - We already have border controls, though the right of EU citizens to come and live here remains.

3. The U.K. will not be part of further political integration. - U.K. Is already not committed to political union and integration, though on a personal note if we vote to remain in Europe that is probably the wrong road to take.

4. There will be tough new restrictions on EU migrants coming to Britain and claiming welfare. - The non payment of benefits to EU migrants has not been ratified and agreed as yet, the EU will not vote in it until the result of the referendum is known, the strong likelihood is that the EU will reject this point.

5. We have a commitment to reduce EU red tape - Seriously, have you ever heard such a ridiculous and meaningless statement as "we are committed to reducing EU red tape?" If ever there was a sentence that says nothing... Here it is.

The above my friends is the great deal Cameron has negotiated, or part negotiated on our behalf.... in a word it's pathetic and I hope you can all see that. For Cameron to believe that what he has negotiated will be the difference between war and peace in Europe is quite frankly ridiculous. Please lend your support and take the opportunity to Vote Leave!i
 
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BigJoe#1 said:
See my post above to learn what call me Dave has negotiated on the reform front. Bear in mind this is lifted directly from their £9m propaganda piece and is quoted in context.
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Thanks that is helpful. It's pants but helpful stuff to understand.

I also appreciate the detail of it , but the words cack all would have done but at least it's some detail for the remainions to hold on to.
 
So... The Geeeks are revolting, The Austrian PM has resigned on the back of the right wing fascists getting big support.

The EU is uniting Europe.... I'm not so sure

My first point that needs addressing by the Remainions is... Do you really think that a one size fits all currency and economy will work across such a diverse range of countries?
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
A

what are the reforms proposed?
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There are eight in total.

1. Ever closer Union will not apply to the UK, so even if it DOES happen, the UK is not affected or implemented by law.
2. EU migrants not applicable for benefits in the UK for at least four years.
3. More power for national governments, less for Brussels (a statement actually shared by Juncker recently)
4. The power to reject introduced EU legislation that is unwanted by national governments and it's people.
5. New rules on immigration in regards to new members joining the EU.
6. Ending unnecessary interference from the ECHR.
7. Ending excessive interference from the EU on how businesses are run.
8. Limitations on EU member citizens to migrate and find work in the UK.

The reforms do not address the roughly £17bn per year the UK pays to be a member, which is a major sticking point for Brexiters (myself included) nor does it mention about Britain's freedom to trade outside the EU. Again it needs to be stressed that these reforms have not yet been accepted, voted on or implemented and point 8 is widely accepted as being the main reason these reform requests will be rejected by EU members.
 
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