EU referendum

[whp.blue]

It is just growing resentment full stop, resentment that has been growing for 3 decades. The EU going away will mean the resentment will start turning in on itself and it will be the regions of the U.K., the poor etc who will face the full force of it. It's sad that what was once a society is now increasingly a bunch of different groups looking for people to blame. As decline continues the out voters will probably face a lot of the resentment.

Britain's decline is a century or more in the making and none of the long term decline, demographic challenges or anything else will change with exit. It's just exit will mean there is really no one else left to blame (that's once the Welsh scots and Irish have been binned and the poorer areas of England have stopped being subsidised)

Even if your opinion is true, which I very much doubt, your problem is the country is not being asked to vote on a century of decline nor the eco sociological reason for that demise, they being asked to stay in or leave a club of self centred european countries that has greed and self interest as it's core values. The problem for the intellectual left in these sort of arguments is that they over think and over debate them as they refuse to believe they can win the argument and still be defeated in the vote.
You are probably right on one point though the resentment is still growing.

 

[Chancy Termites]

are you suggesting that he is only pro European because he fears for his pension.
> I'm stating quite clearly that you can't know 100% what his motives are when he opens his mouth. However, he stands to lose financially if he ever were to criticise the EU.

What sort of person would go and work and sell the EU if they weren't pro European
> Irrelevant as you take no account of the fact that facts and situations can change over time, and people's views can.change accordingly.

 

[TonyM]

Pity Scotland didn't vote out because now they could stay in the EU. They could have leached off them no problem and also got neighbourly investment from the "UK".

Small enough to benefit = stay in. Big enough to contribute = escape.

The irony for me is that the EU turned its back on Scotland leading up to the referendum. Scotland would have been kicked out of the EU if they went independant. That to me again showed the lack of integrety of the EU. All promise until it comes to the crunch.

Poor Scotland if they vote in but the uk votes out.

It's like a teenage love triangle.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Even if your opinion is true, which I very much doubt, your problem is the country is not being asked to vote on a century of decline nor the eco sociological reason for that demise, they being asked to stay in or leave a club of self centred european countries that has greed and self interest as it's core values. The problem for the intellectual left in these sort of arguments is that they over think and over debate them as they refuse to believe they can win the argument and still be defeated in the vote.
You are probably right on one point though the resentment is still growing.

I would suggest that greed and self interest are driving the out vote just as much as the in vote and are fundamental human issues which have been exacerbated since the 70's. They are certainly not a European problem they are a human problem. You somehow imply by those comments an evil self interested Europe with Britain an altruistic naiive bastion of goodness, in reality Britain has had a far less egalitarian and more "greedy" capitalism culture than much of Europe. Most would see that as a positive !

The resentment will grow even bigger after the vote, whatever the outcome and if not careful it will turn The UK into what the US (politically at least) has become - namely a divided blame culture. The US would survive that infinitely better than the UK as well as a younger, more diverse, better resources country can survive bitter politica stagnation more than most

 

[EalingBlue2]

You should probably take any ones views with a pinch of salt to be fair. Boris does it for ambition, Nigel does it to create a reason to exist, the hedge funds support it because they make money out of misery and uncertainty, Kinnock supports it as both he and indeed the valleys got a lot of EU funding, newspapers support either side to sell more papers or for business interests. So Kinnock is no different to any other prominent person you will see talking about it.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Pity Scotland didn't vote out because now they could stay in the EU. They could have leached off them no problem and also got neighbourly investment from the "UK".

Small enough to benefit = stay in. Big enough to contribute = escape.

The irony for me is that the EU turned its back on Scotland leading up to the referendum. Scotland would have been kicked out of the EU if they went independant. That to me again showed the lack of integrety of the EU. All promise until it comes to the crunch.

Poor Scotland if they vote in but the uk votes out.

It's like a teenage love triangle.

It will break up the UK which will be very sad, The UK achieved its greatness very much because of shared achievement, without Welsh and Scottish industry and Scottish ingenuity Britain may never have been great - I for one will be very sorry when it breaks up leaving an England divided much like Italy is today.

 

[blueinsa]

I live and work in Scotland and the vast majority of SNP voters who wanted independence from the UK dont agree with their leader and her insistence that Scotland wants in.

They are voting out and cant believe a leader and party that believes in independence from Westminster and the rest of the UK then wants to jump into bed with Europe and be under some European parliaments ruling.

 

[EalingBlue2]

I live and work in Scotland and the vast majority of SNP voters who wanted independence from the UK dont agree with their leader and her insistence that Scotland wants in.

They are voting out and cant believe a leader and party that believes in independence from Westminster and the rest of the UK then wants to jump into bed with Europe and be under some European parliaments ruling.

Of course they are living a fantasy and expect a fantasy outcome . They were all to be rolling in oil gold by now with the oil kept and the debt left in London. If you live a fantasy world about independence from Englnd why wouldn't you do the same about the EU?

 

[hgblue]

Apparently we're all going to be £4.300 worse off by 2030 if we vote out. Can't wait to see how this figure was arrived at. Their desperation knows no bounds.

 

[stonerblue]

Apparently we're all going to be £4.300 worse off by 2030 if we vote out. Can't wait to see how this figure was arrived at. Their desperation knows no bounds.

Thanks for that. Obviously you know much more about it than several experts so i'm going for 'out'.