EU referendum

[Malty]

Haha, I bet you think that the EU can reform and pigs can fly as well. Cameron got fuck all in his negotiations and they don't even have to enforce that.

It was hilarious to see Cameron trying to hail it as some master art of negotiating when they are all laughing at him as they played him.

 

[Metal Biker]

But it's not the middle ages. Nor is it 1970. It's 2016 and the modern version of the extended European Union was basically only formed in 1992 so what you're arguing is that we would have equal trading power being on our own going up against 27 member states whose combined GDP will astronomically dwarf ours, whose key members will probably be pissed off with us and still, through our 'positive' negotiating tactics be able to strike equal or more beneficial deals to the ones we have now? You genuinely believe that? You don't think there's a chance that at least in the short term it's going to be detrimental to our economy?

In regards to this point, I do believe we'll find things hard for the first few years but after that we'll have settled agreements with other trading blocs, including the EU, and start forging ahead as an independent nation. I feel it's a case of short term pain, long term benefits by leaving over short term benefits, long term pain by remaining.

 

[bugsyblue]

In regards to this point, I do believe we'll find things hard for the first few years but after that we'll have settled agreements with other trading blocs, including the EU, and start forging ahead as an independent nation. I feel it's a case of short term pain, long term benefits by leaving over short term benefits, long term pain by remaining.

Well that's a fair point, you're obviously recognising there will be a detrimental effect on the economy at least in the short term. It's amazing how many people don't even seem to recognise that.

 

[Metal Biker]

Well that's a fair point, you're obviously recognising there will be a detrimental effect on the economy at least in the short term. It's amazing how many people don't even seem to recognise that.

I've noticed on other media outlets it's starting to be addressed that leaving will hit our economy, at least in the first few years, and that we're not going to suddenly start raking it in, which is nice to see this point being raised. There are many financial gains to be had by continuing trading with Europe, but remaining as a member of the EU requires all member states to adopt the Euro currency by 2020 and i'd never want to see this country adopt such a flawed currency, tied in with the other failing EU member economies. I know Cameron has stated that in the reforms, Britain would never be expected or forced to join the Euro, but those reforms still have not been ratified or accepted by the EU (i think they vote on it after the referendum result) and that's what troubles me. Many of the reforms put forward I was happy (enough) with, but until they are assuredly accepted as official I cannot support the argument to remain.

 

[BlueHammer85]

We are the 5th biggest economy in the world

Despite the EU ruining our country eh ?

 

[CityStu]

Pigs, interesting analogy. Why would capitalist greedy pig-fucker Cameron want to stay in the EU then if it wasn't financially beneficial? Please tell because I'm all ears. If there's any chance the UK's economy could benefit from leaving the EU then him and his cronies would be championing it!

Because staying in the EU is very good financially for politicians. Look at Kinnock, Blair, etc. All got their noses in the trough after leaving national politics and are now absolutely raking it in with no risk of not getting re-elected. Corbyn's another great example - hugely anti-EU as a backbencher but now that he's got a bit of political weight behind him, he's all for it! I'm not gullible enough to believe he's had a change of heart, I think he's seen his opportunity to make himself a fortune.

 

[The perfect fumble]

How so? Give me a quote.

Yes the United States has it all wrong, spending more on education than anywhere else in the world and producing more top scientists from 8 out of the world's top 10 universities. What a fuck up their system is. Bring me asbestos-riddled 1960's prefabs any time.

http://www.moneycrashers.com/american-schools-failing-improve-us-education-system/

"A headline in the December 2013 issue of The Atlantic claimed that American schools compared to the rest of the world – the members of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) – were “expensive, unequal, bad at math.” Their conclusion was based upon American student performance in the Programme for International Student Assessment in 2012. Far East countries such as China, Korea, and Japan were top performers, while most European and Scandinavian countries ranked higher than the U.S. as well. Even the country’s former Cold War competitor, the Russian Federation, ranked higher than the United States in the assessment.


According to the OCED study, America spends more than any other nation for public elementary and secondary school education. United States parents also bear a greater proportion of the costs than parents in other countries. In fact, according to CBS News, the government of the average OECD nation covers more of the total educational cost of students – about 20% more – and they get better scholastic performance while having a lower per-student cost than the United States."

Do you want to know about their private healthcare system, or would that be too much?

The existence of lots of US top scientist and Ivy League universities no more justifies the efficacy of the US educational system than Oxford or Cambridge justifies "asbestos-riddled 1960's prefabs" here.

That's why I accused you of being in awe of the privileged 1%. Pointing to excellence at the top to justify a system that in many cases fails the 99%, shows either a supine deference to your betters or a complete lack of rational thought.

 

[CityStu]

Despite the EU ruining our country eh ?

The country is not the economy. Would you accept being the most prosperous nation in the world if you had to work full time until you keeled over, the country was concreted over, children were taught 50 to a class and you had to wait months for a doctors appointment?

 

[bugsyblue]

The country is not the economy. Would you accept being the most prosperous nation in the world if you had to work full time until you keeled over, the country was concreted over, children were taught 50 to a class and you had to wait months for a doctors appointment?

And you're voting to leave the EU, which protects worker's rights way more than any of our own laws. Riiiight.

 

[kas_tippler]

The sad thing is that scare stories will decide the result, not reasoned balanced debate from both sides. I except a vote for the UK to remain in the EU but the mud slinging and arguments to rumble on.