EU referendum

[EalingBlue2]

I'm still undecided about which way to vote, but I tell you something.... every single argument I've heard from the 'In' campaign is actually a negative argument about what will happen should we leave.

It's well known that being negative (even if you're right) can turn people against your point of view (it's partly due to this that the Scotland vote was so much closer than people originally thought it would be) so I really do feel that the negative 'In' campaign is being counter-productive and could contribute to an 'Out' vote.

So, as an undecided voter, I've got a question for those who definitely want to remain in the EU...

Can I have some positives about what will happen should we vote to stay in the EU? If you can, I'd like specifics about what will improve for us.

If I see any negatives in the answer I'll just ignore it :-)

That doesn't seem like a very open minded question with respect, we have a situation where the question is remaining with the status quo or making a dramatic change. You proclude any negative aspect of that change and proclude any positive aspect of the status quo this eliminating all possible arguments.

If I live in village a and am thinking of moving to village b and you ask me to state the case for staying in village a, without being allowed to mention anything about village a other than what will improve or negative about village b, it doesn't leave much.

 

[Chippy_boy]

If it was so bad leaving and a disaster for world peace , interest rates, business, the polar ice caps, bill and Ben, imre varadi, the nhs, your holidays etc etc why the fuck are we being allowed to vote on it in the first place

Because there's the square root of fuck all chance of us actually leaving, and it shuts the Tory rebels up. It's the only way the PM got to be PM. And it was a handy threat to wield to the other 27 when trying to negotiate on various points.

Next

 

[EalingBlue2]

I

Oh mr chips it's all so black and white in the chips house. What do you want for tea son? Chips . Next.

Imagine explaining to a defector from North Korea democracy. So what we do in democracy is we vote every 5 years for our government and what they do is they give all the power to another unelected body who enact the majority of the laws that govern us. Even when we don't like them there is nothing we can do about it. Indeed even our own government moan regularly about the dictator from Europe. That sounds like just what I left......

If it was so bad leaving and a disaster for world peace , interest rates, business, the polar ice caps, bill and Ben, imre varadi, the nhs, your holidays etc etc why the fuck are we being allowed to vote on it in the first place

I think all the nonsense about dictators and dictatorships shows just how many people in the west really have had such easy cosseted lives and lives in very free countries that they can bandy around such terms without any real concept of what they mean.

To compare North Korea to the EU is an insult to your own intelligence let alone the rest of us,

 

[EalingBlue2]

Because there's the square root of fuck all chance of us actually leaving, and it shuts the Tory rebels up. It's the only way the PM got to be PM. And it was a handy threat to wield to the other 27 when trying to negotiate on various points.

Next

It is utterly symptomatic of the way people live in the 21st century, tomorrow doesn't exist, as long as the political and economic Ponzi scheme keeps going today we can worry about tomorrow later.

Cameron worried more about his leadership and the upcoming election than he did about the countries future, therefore in a typically cynical expedient politicians way he took a decision that made things easy today regardless of what it did tomorrow. The political equivalent of giving in to a screaming toddler to earn a bit of peace if you like.

 

[Helmet Cole]

Outers are like United fans or Christians you don't argue with them because you think you will change their mind, you do it because one day you know that they will know that you were always right.

You wanker! That is exactly the same smug complacency that allows Christians to 'know' they are 'right'. I usually find you make good points tbh, but you've shown how blinkered and arrogant you are there. I'm hoping youvare just wumming or taking the piss.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

I

I think all the nonsense about dictators and dictatorships shows just how many people in the west really have had such easy cosseted lives and lives in very free countries that they can bandy around such terms without any real concept of what they mean.

To compare North Korea to the EU is an insult to your own intelligence let alone the rest of us,

The point I am making is of the principle of democracy not the regime. Leaving or staying won't make any difference to people on a day to day basis . This country has fought wars and come through many more things than leaving the Euro. To suggest the world or business or the nhs or society is going to collapse is outrageous. Or in 2030 we will be 4030 worse off per household is utter nonsense. Please don't tell me you believe someone can predict the future so accurately on something so specific. If you do then sort your own intelligence out,

Stay or leave day to day things will go on as they are pretty much the country will be a success so it simply comes down to rule of law and sovereignty and those we elect being accountable to the electorate for the laws they bring in. That's it for me the rest I don't believe the fear campaign on each side to be honest.
We can still be pro Europe and mates with Europe just not be sucked into the political beurocracy that dilutes the above principle like other countries in the continent of Europe who live very happy lives.

 

[EalingBlue2]

You wanker! That is exactly the same smug complacency that allows Christians to 'know' they are 'right'. I usually find you make good points tbh, but you've shown how blinkered and arrogant you are there. I'm hoping youvare just wumming or taking the piss.

I was being a wanker plain and simple- honestly I don't expect for one second to change the mind of people who believe that a North Korean like EU is coming for us as millions of poor immigrants fill our hospitals and keep honest hard working Tommys from getting a job. If believing that God doesn't exist or that City are deeply and in every way superior to the Rags, or that Europe is not North Korea and the U.K is responsible for its own issues is in your eyes arrogant then fair play. I call it crystal clear certainty. Christians think they are right, United fans think they are right, outers think they are right..... That's the way it is.

It's not complacency it is confidence and I am extremely confident that in or out of the EU will make no difference at all if the real issues aren't tackled and I am confident that whatever the result now the UK will be split for decades and that split more than the result will cause deep harm to many people. As to who the harm is to, that will depend on the vote

 

[EalingBlue2]

You can't debate with these people Ealing. Their minds are made up and whatever logical argument you through at them just gets ignored. It's a complete waste of time, and to be honest whilst a bit interesting and entertaining for a while has now got more than a bit boring.

You're right about the North Korea comment. When the Outers are resorting to comparing the EU to North Korea, you know there isn't going to be a sensible debate.

Mate even though I suspect we are very different politically I think the UK has far more important things to deal with.

Namely fixing the structural deficit, quickly turning around state education and investing in the future, addressing the looming health funding crisis and dealing with a tax system that no longer does what it needs to do. That and addressing the causes of terrorism , the worst effects of poverty etc etc are where the focus should be... The obsession with the away by a rump minority has for 30 years taken politicians eyes off the ball, given a chance for governments to avoid and deflect and done a huge disservice to tens of millions of people.

If you don't have your health, you have a poor education , you have few opportunities, your c Putney is bankrupt or you are a victim of terrorism why should you give a monkeys what nationality the government who failed you are.

 

[Monkfish]

You wanker! That is exactly the same smug complacency that allows Christians to 'know' they are 'right'. I usually find you make good points tbh, but you've shown how blinkered and arrogant you are there. I'm hoping youvare just wumming or taking the piss.

Lucky for you this time you will be able to go through the rest of your life posting on here that 'if only we had listened to me and voted to leave...'

You will know you were right and nobody will ever be able to prove otherwise, win win

 

[Monkfish]

On another point is Boris a remain campaign plant?