EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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Helmet Cole said:
Integration of police, armed forces and the defense industry is already very much in motion. Our unhappy friends in the caliphate are already forcing out of necessity integration of police and Intel. The post cold war economic reality is moving us towards more integrated defense projects and sdsr 2020 should see a the principle of a euro armed response under central (probably German) command. Weather this is more or less desirable than our current position as the lapdog of the US is anyone's guess, but to regard the EU as anything but a move towards a single state in all respects is naive.
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But Dave has got us a deal, he has drawn a line in the sand
 
Chippy_boy said:
For god's sake, how many times do we have to go around this loop. The EU is not a single entity. It is 28 states and of the 27 excluding us, 20 of them need to agree the terms of the trade deal. Of the 27, the majority - like 24 or 25 - have nothing to gain from a trade agreement and plenty to lose.

Ask yourself this. When we say to Poland, "we're not allowing your citizens to come to the UK without visa restrictions, points-based, capped migration limits etc", but please will you agree to us having an open trade with you where our UK businesses are free to export to your markets without tarif and without the burden of EU employment laws". Why, why on earth, would they say "OK alright then"? Same for all the eastern EU nations.

Expecting a quick and easy trade negotiation is absolute fantasy and it honestly beggars belief that there's anybody who still clings to this fantasy. EVEN IF all the nations were broadly in support and agreeable, it would take years because the EU is like swimming in treacle at the best of times. But there is no such consensus. It will take YEARS to negotiate a deal. How can it not?
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that argument could also be turned on it's head and explain why the EU take an eternity to actually negotiate any trade agreements. The Guardian is today reporting that a leaked document shows the TTIP agreement has met with 'irreconcilable' differences - wouldn't logic dictate that for future trade agreements with non EU states the UK would not be hamstrung by multiple vested interests?
 
hilts said:
This will ultimately be the view of most if in doubt do nowt, as I said earlier the vote will be to stay in, it will come around again though
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It's an interesting exercise to look into the future alright.

'The genie is now out of the bottle' was something I heard from a Brexit speaker a few days ago and how right it is. The near 50% of the population that has got really exercised about leaving the EU are going to look for a political party that represents their standpoint. I've read a lot of stuff on the forums where Labour supporters are going against their party and the same from a lot of Tory supporters who see Cameron as a slime ball. So come the next general election something significant is going to happen. It will probably be on the same level as the sudden rise of the SNP in Scotland which has taken everybody by surprise.

My crystal ball sees a massive gain for UKIP who, as you say, will push for another referendum either as part of their pre election manifesto or when they gain seats in the Commons. But for any change to happen re Europe it will have to be within the next decade. Within about ten years most of the elderly voters will be dribbling and it will be down to the people who have known nothing else apart from being in Europe to vote us out. That won't happen will it. So it's now or never.
 
Helmet Cole said:
Integration of police, armed forces and the defense industry is already very much in motion. Our unhappy friends in the caliphate are already forcing out of necessity integration of police and Intel. The post cold war economic reality is moving us towards more integrated defense projects and sdsr 2020 should see a the principle of a euro armed response under central (probably German) command. Weather this is more or less desirable than our current position as the lapdog of the US is anyone's guess, but to regard the EU as anything but a move towards a single state in all respects is naive.
Click to expand...

The only country pushing for integration of the armed forces are the French (they expect to lead it)
 
smudgedj said:
It's not just that; can you see German and French soldiers wanting to fight in the Falklands, or if Spain decides to take Gib.
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This is the the problem there will come a time when not only are our armed forces actually not our armed forces, but just part of a Federal European armed forces, and therefore we will have no real say in when and where or how they are to be equipped or deployed, or even based. So in the case of the Falklands whether or not to defend them will be a decision not for our government in the houses of parliment but a decision for a French/Slovakian/Turkish? politician in Brussels. Thats good though so long as the the great British public can believe that their pockets will not be less weighed down.
 
smudgedj said:
It's not just that; can you see German and French soldiers wanting to fight in the Falklands, or if Spain decides to take Gib.
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Don't worry, that nice Obama man who wants the UK to stay in the EU has already suggested we look at handing the Falklands back to the Argentines and I'm sure the us may get a little thankyou from them in terms of territory/resources in the south Atlantic. As we will all be part of the EU then our claim v Spain's to GiB will not matter. UK, Spain, GiB will all be administered from the same place.
 
Helmet Cole said:
Don't worry, that nice Obama man who wants the UK to stay in the EU has already suggested we look at handing the Falklands back to the Argentines and I'm sure the us may get a little thankyou from them in terms of territory/resources in the south Atlantic. As we will all be part of the EU then our claim v Spain's to GiB will not matter. UK, Spain, GiB will all be administered from the same place.
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Oh come come Helmut think of all that money we would save not having to finance those nasty noisy Typhoons we have to keep over there in order to stop those hard done to Argentinians claiming what of course is rightfully theirs! It would be best for all concerned if we were too leave such decisions to those in Brussels who really know the meaning of right and wrong and whos sole intention is to save our country from those who live here.

As for the Yanks of course they should prosper from Obamas efforts to educate us.
 
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