EU referendum

[Monkfish]

there will come a time when not only are our armed forces actually not our armed forces, but just part of a Federal European armed forces, and therefore we will have no real say in when and where or how they are to be equipped or deployed

That's the best argument for eu membership I've ever read

 

[Chancy Termites]

The only country pushing for integration of the armed forces are the French (they expect to lead it)

One Dutch batallion has already been moved to German army control in a bilateral agreement.

 

[purplenose]

That's the best argument for eu membership I've ever read

What a pillock you are.

 

[Chancy Termites]

TTIP docs leaked by Greenpeace. Guardian report here - http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/01/leaked-ttip-documents-cast-doubt-on-eu-us-trade-deal

 

[Helmet Cole]

Oh come come Helmut think of all that money we would save not having to finance those nasty noisy Typhoons we have to keep over there in order to stop those hard done to Argentinians claiming what of course is rightfully theirs! It would be best for all concerned if we were too leave such decisions to those in Brussels who really know the meaning of right and wrong and whos sole intention is to save our country from those who live here.

As for the Yanks of course they should prosper from Obamas efforts to educate us.

Remember the other name for the typhoon? - Eurofighter. A euro joint project which has to date been used for nothing more aggressive than the odd airshow and gently escorting Russian bombers off the skegness coast. Total waste of money which we are bound to by an idiotic European partnership. Meanwhile the tornado has had to be patched up to cover the capability gap.

 

[purplenose]

Remember the other name for the typhoon? - Eurofighter. A euro joint project which has to date been used for nothing more aggressive than the odd airshow and gently escorting Russian bombers off the skegness coast. Total waste of money which we are bound to by an idiotic European partnership. Meanwhile the tornado has had to be patched up to cover the capability gap.

They have been used in anger in the middle east, not sure i agree about them being a waste of money, however I do strongly believe that we could have continued to produce world class aircraft without having to rely on other European nations to help us do so. Indeed the Tornado was not entirely British. Governments both lefr and right have murdered the aircraft industry in this country, Cameron applying the coup de grace when scrapping the Nimrod....he should hang for that one.

No doubt there will be some along shortly excusing all this and claiming finances and cost are now prohibitive when producing these aircraft....just to head off any such nonsense I will point out that the French have produced the Rafale, the Swedes the Gripen without having to pimp their arse, both being very capable aircraft.

 

[Chippy_boy]

that argument could also be turned on it's head and explain why the EU take an eternity to actually negotiate any trade agreements. The Guardian is today reporting that a leaked document shows the TTIP agreement has met with 'irreconcilable' differences - wouldn't logic dictate that for future trade agreements with non EU states the UK would not be hamstrung by multiple vested interests?

True. That would be one of the advantages if we left.

 

[Helmet Cole]

They have been used in anger in the middle east, not sure i agree about them being a waste of money, however I do strongly believe that we could have continued to produce world class aircraft without having to rely on other European nations to help us do so. Indeed the Tornado was not entirely British. Governments both lefr and right have murdered the aircraft industry in this country, Cameron applying the coup de grace when scrapping the Nimrod....he should hang for that one.

No doubt there will be some along shortly excusing all this and claiming finances and cost are now prohibitive when producing these aircraft....just to head off any such nonsense I will point out that the French have produced the Rafale, the Swedes the Gripen without having to pimp their arse, both being very capable aircraft.

Used to patrol the no fly zone in Libya (didn't come across any other planes), and bombed a parked car in an abandoned carpark (successfully). Half our planes have been cannibalised to keep the other half running as there are problems with our European partners making enough spare parts. Due to be fully operational by 2018 only 15 years after entering service. Probably a good thing it doesn't work if you look at the countries that have it.

 

[grunge]

TTIP docs leaked by Greenpeace. Guardian report here - http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/01/leaked-ttip-documents-cast-doubt-on-eu-us-trade-deal

I know TTIP will be boiled down a bit once it starts to get debated but Jesus!.

 

[cibaman]

For god's sake, how many times do we have to go around this loop. The EU is not a single entity. It is 28 states and of the 27 excluding us, 20 of them need to agree the terms of the trade deal. Of the 27, the majority - like 24 or 25 - have nothing to gain from a trade agreement and plenty to lose.

Ask yourself this. When we say to Poland, "we're not allowing your citizens to come to the UK without visa restrictions, points-based, capped migration limits etc", but please will you agree to us having an open trade with you where our UK businesses are free to export to your markets without tarif and without the burden of EU employment laws". Why, why on earth, would they say "OK alright then"? Same for all the eastern EU nations.

Expecting a quick and easy trade negotiation is absolute fantasy and it honestly beggars belief that there's anybody who still clings to this fantasy. EVEN IF all the nations were broadly in support and agreeable, it would take years because the EU is like swimming in treacle at the best of times. But there is no such consensus. It will take YEARS to negotiate a deal. How can it not?

It will take years for the UK negotiators to agree on our negotiating position. Trade negotiations involve setting priorities, making compromises. They create winners and losers. The winners keep quiet, the losers make a noise. Especially if the losers are considered to be more worthy than the winners. Whichever Tory PM leads the negotiations will inevitably be accused of favouring bankers over farmers, car workers etc. Favouring London and South East jobs, over jobs in the regions. Once the EU makes it clear that we're not going to retain access to the free market without any of the obligations, it will get very messy very quickly.