EU referendum

[halfcenturyup]

You need to give your head a wobble. The polls were moving back towards remain before people knew the killer was a right wing extremist.

More realistically, some of the waverers appear to have previously been taken in by Farrage and had a rethink. If there was a one issue campaign he was leading it.

There is every chance still that Brexit will win so ypur post is a bit premature. The polls are often wrong.

It's a about time people moved on from the Jo Cox death but there some people who want to blame her for Brexit not being ahead in the polls.

Neither you nor anyone else knows why the polls have moved up, down or sideways.

 

[mcfc1632]

Rubbish. Some of them are part of the government for a start. Second this isn't an election its a referendum so that shouldn't matter - Boris tells us he's not after Daves job he just wants a Brexit. Well I'd expect any competent politician to have planned what to do in the event of a win.

just where to start with this - especially as it was replying to a perfectly valid post explaining that Leave is a campaign not a government - it has been Dave and Gideon's job to objectively and 'professionally' prepare to take forward the direction we give.......

Do you know what - can't be bothered

 

[halfcenturyup]

why? I agree with him

Actually I don't. With all due respect to her and her family and terrible though the whole thing is, she was murdered because her political actions, which granted were a reflection of her political beliefs, offended someone with serious mental issues. She didn't die FOR her political beliefs. It wasn't a selfless sacrifice, she didnt deliberately put herself at risk, she was murdered by a nutjob.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Neither you nor anyone else knows why the polls have moved up, down or sideways.

I know how to tell the time of day and when the public was made aware of the Killer was a Nazi!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Actually I don't. With all due respect to her and her family and terrible though the whole thing is, she was murdered because her political actions, which granted were a reflection of her political beliefs, offended someone with serious mental issues. She didn't die FOR her political beliefs. It wasn't a selfless sacrifice, she didnt deliberately put herself at risk, she was murdered by a nutjob.

You can keep claiming black is white but Jo Cox - like Lee Rigby - died in public service.

 

[mcfc1632]

Anyway, leaving Pam's pussy to one side, I'm just reading the so-called Five Presidents' Report put out last year by the EU. It's not actually called The Five Presidents' Report but its real title is "Completing Europe's Economic and Monetary Union". The authors were Jean Claude Juncker with Mario Draghi, Donald Tusk, Jeroen Dijsselbloem and Martin Schulz. They are the presidents of the main EU bodies, hence the "Five Presidents".

It can be found at: https://ec.europa.eu/priorities/sites/beta-political/files/5-presidents-report_en.pdf

Here's the opening paragraph in the introduction:

In other words, they want a single monetary and fiscal policy across the EU.

First couple of sentences in Part 1 (try not to laugh too much when you read it): Yes - they really said that.

And there's more:

And what are these further steps?

There's plenty more like this and it all sounds very reasonable and democratic but the meaning is quite clear. We will make the important decisions and tell you about them afterwards. But occasionally the mask slips a bit. Like here, for example:

Let me put that into English - we'll take the big economic decisions and we'll tell you how much we need you to raise in tax and give to us then we'll give you your spending money. How you raise it and spend it is up to you however, as long as you raise what we need and don't spend more than we allow you to. And that's going to be completed in the next ten years.

This isn't some made-up story or scaremongering. This is from the mouths of the people running the EU. So if you vote Remain on Thursday, be very clear what you're voting for.

You see - I actually give these guys credit - they are at least clear about their intentions and absolutely determined to implement their strategy

What depresses me is the mindset of the Remain camp - there are none so blind as those that will not see.....

I would not be bothered with their lemming attitudes if they were not dragging the rest of us over the cliff edge as well

 

[halfcenturyup]

You can keep claiming black is white but Jo Cox - like Lee Rigby - died in public service.

So we agree, she died in public service and it was terrible.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I know how to tell the time of day and when the public was made aware of the Killer was a Nazi!

Well I am pleased to hear it.

 

[grunge]

For those who believe the myth that the EU is undemocratic.

 

[TonyM]

What's to prevent tail between the legs return to the EU in 5-10 years if it just isn't panning out as expected? Anything concrete or is it just pride/prejudice?

 

[M18CTID]

I am undecided. Would you care to explain to me in your own words how bad the impact on the economy will be if there is a Leave vote? What that would mean in practical terms? What were the assumptions used in the economic models used to come to those conclusions? How sensitive are the results to changes in each of the assumptions? What was the worst case and best case impact?

Take your time Pam...

 

[grunge]

What's to prevent tail between the legs return to the EU in 5-10 years if it just isn't panning out as expected? Anything concrete or is it just pride/prejudice?

Nothing concrete as far as I'm aware but it's not easy joining, it needs the OK from all 27 members, members who we have actively been pissing off for for years and will shit on if we leave.

 

[cibaman]

That will be the huge challenge they face. Can you really see such prominent figures such as Johnson, Caeron, Gove, Osborne, Grayling, Redwood, Patel, IDS working harmoniously alongside each other? I can't. There will be a titanic struggle for power whatever the outcome unless it turns out to be a significant majority say bigger than 54-46 to remain. It's going to be interesting.

It is a huge challenge and its one that they would have to address before a general election is held or even Corbyn will beat them. It would be madness for them to fight a general election until one side or the other has won the internal battle for power and they can present a coherent manifesto.

 

[SWP's back]

Actually I don't. With all due respect to her and her family and terrible though the whole thing is, she was murdered because her political actions, which granted were a reflection of her political beliefs, offended someone with serious mental issues. She didn't die FOR her political beliefs. It wasn't a selfless sacrifice, she didnt deliberately put herself at risk, she was murdered by a nutjob.

You make a very good point.

 

[TonyM]

Nothing concrete as far as I'm aware but it's not easy joining, it needs the OK from all 27 members, members who we have actively been pissing off for for years and will shit on if we leave.

That'd be some small time thinking on their behalf. Do people really believe tat they'd be so spiteful.

If 'twas me if step out see if the grass really was greener and if not step in. Easy! :-)

 

[M18CTID]

FWIW, my own personal opinion is that if we vote to leave then that could be the catalyst for the collapse of the EU as we know it with other countries following suit, so all these predictions that we'll be worse off out of the EU are a load of shite - IMHO of course.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting it to be a perfect utopia if Leave wins - we'll still have our own shitty politicians in this country to put up with - but that won't stop me sticking 2 fingers up at Brussels when I cast my vote tomorrow.

 

[grunge]

News thump in non jokey, serious and seems accurate representation of the situation.

https://m.facebook.com/notes/newsth...-is-newsthump-going-to-vote/1115572031828566/

 

[Bill]

It would be criminal to waste this opportunity to break free and rid ourselves of the leech that is the EU and at the same time take control back of our own country. If we fail in going alone then so be it,at least it's our own doing. Vote in and our country is lost forever. Britain will eventually cease to exist,sooner rather than later.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

That'd be some small time thinking on their behalf. Do people really believe tat they'd be so spiteful.

If 'twas me if step out see if the grass really was greener and if not step in. Easy! :-)

Maybe so Tony but other countries see things slightly differently to us. For example, the Polish pay for a good education for their people and then many piss off to England that supports our economy and public services. (Admittedly a lot have returned to Poland with work experience).

The Polish might be happy for us to be outside the EU that could make it easier for them to retain their talented people.

 

[cibaman]

That'd be some small time thinking on their behalf. Do people really believe tat they'd be so spiteful.

If 'twas me if step out see if the grass really was greener and if not step in. Easy! :-)

If we change our minds before the formal exit process is completed then of course they will let us stay.

If we formally exit and then change our minds they would probably let us back in but insist we join the Euro and Schengen (if they still existed) and there would be no rebate.