EU referendum

[Moriati]

David Cameron is in favour of Turkey joining the EU.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...-opening-uk-border-to-75-million-more-people/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html

Turkey's government has just taken over a newspaper and forced it to print pro-government views.

And it borders Syria, so no more need for those rickety boats for economic migrants to reach the EU and possible access to our benefits system, health service, schools and housing.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...-will-humiliate-the-eu-again#comment-70074006

A vote to remain in the EU is a vote for Cameron, a vote for Turkey to join the EU, a vote for TTIP and a vote that zero hours contracts, poverty pay imposing big business would just love you to cast.

The negotiators ? Their mandate ? On behalf of ?

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/me...hours.aspx?pageID=238&nID=96120&NewsCatID=510

 

[BigJoe#1]

If ever a post hit home as to the true picture of whats facing us its the above from yphrunts.

Pay no heed to the liars with an agenda, use your own judgement on the points made in this excellent post, because its you and yours that will have to live with the result, not call me Dave or the head of some organisation or other.

Whilst I concur with the sentiment and many of the points raised in yphrunts post it galls me to think it was someone as hideous as Katie Hopkins that penned it - correct me if I'm wrong.

Nonetheless we need to get above the personalities and consider the facts in the context of our own lives and make our own decisions in the broader interests of ourselves, our families and our country. Sadly for me there are far too many things wrong with the current system to persuade me to stay. Like many, no one knows what lies ahead if we leave, or indeed if we stay but I'm all for change. Just sad the personalities on both sides are so abhorrent and that hey are getting air time.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

yeah quite agree, apart from the fact that nearly everything in the Hopkins diatribe is factually incorrect and the incoherent ramblings of a racist woman writing for gobshite 'man in the pub' who actually swallows up this shit

think for yourself or think like a Hopkins?

Absolutely spot on, Monkfish.
Fuck me if that is the argument to leave it is atrocious.

 

[urmston]

How many times do we hear of services being cut because of a shortage of a few million pounds?

Libraries, care for the elderly and children's centres are just some examples.

Yet we send a staggering £23 million per day to Brussels, and that money of ours is spent on foreigners who are not homeless or starving like some poor people in Africa, but living perfectly adequate lives with housing, enough to eat, electricity and gas, cars and mobile phones.

So overall we paid in £8.5 billion more than we got back, or £23 million a day.

https://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

Eleven days of that could stop all these cuts in Manchester -

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news/new-council-cuts-nearly-quarter-9931535

Vote Leave so our money is spent here and not on people abroad who don't really need it.

 

[grunge]

How many times do we hear of services being cut because of a shortage of a few million pounds?

Libraries, care for the elderly and children's centres are just some examples.

Yet we send a staggering £23 million per day to Brussels, and that money of ours is spent on foreigners who are not homeless or starving like some poor people in Africa, but living perfectly adequate lives with housing, enough to eat, electricity and gas, cars and mobile phones.

So overall we paid in £8.5 billion more than we got back, or £23 million a day.

https://fullfact.org/economy/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

Eleven days of that could stop all these cuts in Manchester -

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news/new-council-cuts-nearly-quarter-9931535

Vote Leave so our money is spent here and not on people abroad who don't really need it.

Still doesn't take into consideration the benefits of being in the single market ( Tax, free trade, ease of trade in Europe, boosts to business because of those thing etc etc) mostly because those are very difficult to calculate, its just the rebates given by default.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Sack of shit that fullfact site. Click on send to Brussels, just below the first graph and lo and behold

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_cost

 

[CityStu]

Still doesn't take into consideration the benefits of being in the single market ( Tax, free trade, ease of trade in Europe, boosts to business because of those thing etc etc) mostly because those are very difficult to calculate, its just the rebates given by default.

I see it as the In campaign's duty to provide us with those benefits quantified. How else am I meant to judge the 'boost to business' and compare that to our cost of membership? How do I know that there's even a benefit there in the first place?

Whilst that information is not available to me and the enormous costs of being in the EU are very readily accessible, I can't shift from an Out vote.

 

[Monkfish]

Still doesn't take into consideration the benefits of being in the single market ( Tax, free trade, ease of trade in Europe, boosts to business because of those thing etc etc) mostly because those are very difficult to calculate, its just the rebates given by default.

tis true, a bit like London saying it should start its own country instead of its taxes paying for people on the dole in Sunderland, carefully ignoring the fact that it relies a great deal on the country it is situated in for its wealth

don't think we will come close to getting many facts during this campaign - though I do appreciate Urmston actually giving a 23m a day figure rather than the made up 50m per day espoused by Hopkins, Carswell et al

 

[Monkfish]

I see it as the In campaign's duty to provide us with those benefits quantified. How else am I meant to judge the 'boost to business' and compare that to our cost of membership? How do I know that there's even a benefit there in the first place?

Hard to quantify indeed, but there are non-EU countries paying into the EU to be part of the market so its safe to assume some benefit does exist? Unless those Norwegians are just charitable of course

The in campaign has released plenty of information about the benefits of EU membership, because you don't believe any of it doesn't mean they haven't provided any does it?

 

[CityStu]

Hard to quantify indeed, but there are non-EU countries paying into the EU to be part of the market so its safe to assume some benefit does exist? Unless those Norwegians are just charitable of course

The in campaign has released plenty of information about the benefits of EU membership, because you don't believe any of it doesn't mean they haven't provided any does it?

The point (on this EU topic) is the trade off between how much we pay in and how much we get out. It probably is facetious to claim there is no benefit to being in the EU, but if those benefits come at a ridiculous price then it probably isn't worth it. Norway and Switzerland pay in a fraction of what we do, so they evidently don't think the benefits are worth the membership fee.

I haven't seen any information quantifying the benefits of being in the EU. If it is cost effective then why wouldn't they be shouting that from the rooftops?

The graph you mentioned in urmston's link shows that we've been a net recipient in just one year of our EU membership thus far and that the trend of our net contributions is increasing.