smudgedj
Well-Known Member
That doesn't fit with the uneducated, xenophobic, racist little Englander argument.
(excellent gif yesterday btw lol)
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EU referendum
- Thread starter Ric
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(excellent gif yesterday btw lol)
smudgedj
Well-Known Member
Cast Iron Dave in being full of shit shocker.As I said I was quoting camerons reply to an exit mp in pmq's not my words his that if we are out we are out of the lot
Metal Biker
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And old! Don't forget old.That doesn't fit with the uneducated, xenophobic, racist little Englander argument.
(excellent gif yesterday btw lol)
How can you be certain the BoJo will be the next Tory leader? I think he stands little to no chance, he won't have the backing of the majority of Tory parliamentary party will he? They will be split right down the middle and many would not want work with or for him. The next Tory party leader will more than likely be Theresa May, as much as I despise her politics, she us about the only serving Tory MP that will have the profile, the clout and the authority to do this, the rest mate are dead men walking!Your separation of these issues is purely technical. Everyone knows that Bojo joined the Brexiters to progress his Tory leadership aims. If Brexit win then Bojo is a shoe in for the next Tiry leader and probably PM. Can you not understand this or do you choose to bury your head in the sand!
kevin horlocks wand
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And old! Don't forget old.
And daily mail reader....
As previously posted, that this will not happen is the one absolute certainty about a Brexit vote.Bojo will be PM if Brexit wins. Do you see that as an irrelevance?
How can you be certain the BoJo will be the next Tory leader? I think he stands little to no chance, he won't have the backing of the majority of Tory parliamentary party will he? They will be split right down the middle and many would not want work with or for him. The next Tory party leader will more than likely be Theresa May, as much as I despise her politics, she us about the only serving Tory MP that will have the profile, the clout and the authority to do this, the rest mate are dead men walking!
Fuck, and I thought I was scared at the thought of Boris being PM. Theresa May will have compulsory Government webcams in every home before she's finished.
Both of these are in the political wilderness for the next 5-10 years.He'll probably be PM if Brexit doesn't win as well though. That, or it'll be Osbourne who's proved himself as pretty inept and uninspiring.
Like I said I can't stand her politics, but she us the ONLY one who can save the Tories and many back bench know this.Fuck, and I thought I was scared at the thought of Boris being PM. Theresa May will have compulsory Government webcams in every home before she's finished.
Prestwich_Blue
Well-Known Member
A long but very interesting essay in The Economist (which has been resoundingly in the Remain camp generally).
http://www.economist.com/news/essays/europe
It makes the point that what is now the EU was basically France's post-war Plan C, after it failed to get control over German steel and coal then failed to build a pact with Russia. The author makes the point (which I'm not sure I agree with) that, from there, the EU grew by accident and possibly only got going properly when the French fell out with Britain over Suez and turned to the Germans instead. The whole basis of De Gaulle's refusal to grant us entry was the feeling we were too close to the USA (who had put pressure on us to abandon the military operation in Suez).
He might be right about its initial gestation but the more recent advances in European integration certainly had a wider motive, in my view. A-Level economics are enough to tell you that you can't force countries with completely different economies and fiscal policies into a single currency without causing damage. Control of interest rates, exchange rates and monetary policy are three of the key weapons that a country's financial policy makers need to have over their country's economy and while in the Euro, two of those have effectively been taken away, with economic consequences for the less strong economies. Greece, Portugal & Italy have suffered badly under the Euro while Spain has but has recovered slightly. It's created more problems than it has solved, which is another point the author makes. This EU, which is supposed to protect us against extremism and conflict, has actually led to the rise of the far-right as people express a greater desire for self-determination.
And there's worse to come because if you want growth in all the countries of the Eurozone, you have to have a single fiscal policy and, to do that, you need much deeper political integration. So people saying we should stay in and reform it from the inside are the delusional ones. The EU does not want to be reformed. It wants greater political and economic integration because that's the only way they can make it work and stop the whole thing falling apart. Like a company that's become too big and bloated and that's lost focus on where it should be, greater value will be delivered by breaking it up and making the constituent parts more nimble and better able to react quickly to changes in the business environment. The reason so many people in Europe and beyond want us to stay in is not for our benefit but for Europe's. Because if we vote to leave, then the pressure will grow for similar referendums in other countries. Despite being the founder of the EU, Euro-scepticism in France is even higher than it is here. The Euro has done nothing for the countries who went in to it.
The same economists who are predicting Britain will suffer outside the EU are also of the belief that the Euro is coming under increasing pressure as it perpetuates an environment of low growth and high unemployment. The initial crisis may have passed but longer term issues haven't. If Thursday was about joining the EU, with its mandatory acceptance of conditions such as the Euro and Schengen, there's little doubt it would be overwhelmingly defeated. The concept of central control and a planned economy died years ago. The Eurozone is, from a fiscal point of view, a planned economy. It's an idea whose time has longed passed. We need to vote to come out, start the process of dismantling the vanity project that is the Eurozone and go back to what we had, which was a Common Market where countries are free to make the economic decisions that best suit them, not that best suit Germany.
http://www.economist.com/news/essays/europe
It makes the point that what is now the EU was basically France's post-war Plan C, after it failed to get control over German steel and coal then failed to build a pact with Russia. The author makes the point (which I'm not sure I agree with) that, from there, the EU grew by accident and possibly only got going properly when the French fell out with Britain over Suez and turned to the Germans instead. The whole basis of De Gaulle's refusal to grant us entry was the feeling we were too close to the USA (who had put pressure on us to abandon the military operation in Suez).
He might be right about its initial gestation but the more recent advances in European integration certainly had a wider motive, in my view. A-Level economics are enough to tell you that you can't force countries with completely different economies and fiscal policies into a single currency without causing damage. Control of interest rates, exchange rates and monetary policy are three of the key weapons that a country's financial policy makers need to have over their country's economy and while in the Euro, two of those have effectively been taken away, with economic consequences for the less strong economies. Greece, Portugal & Italy have suffered badly under the Euro while Spain has but has recovered slightly. It's created more problems than it has solved, which is another point the author makes. This EU, which is supposed to protect us against extremism and conflict, has actually led to the rise of the far-right as people express a greater desire for self-determination.
And there's worse to come because if you want growth in all the countries of the Eurozone, you have to have a single fiscal policy and, to do that, you need much deeper political integration. So people saying we should stay in and reform it from the inside are the delusional ones. The EU does not want to be reformed. It wants greater political and economic integration because that's the only way they can make it work and stop the whole thing falling apart. Like a company that's become too big and bloated and that's lost focus on where it should be, greater value will be delivered by breaking it up and making the constituent parts more nimble and better able to react quickly to changes in the business environment. The reason so many people in Europe and beyond want us to stay in is not for our benefit but for Europe's. Because if we vote to leave, then the pressure will grow for similar referendums in other countries. Despite being the founder of the EU, Euro-scepticism in France is even higher than it is here. The Euro has done nothing for the countries who went in to it.
The same economists who are predicting Britain will suffer outside the EU are also of the belief that the Euro is coming under increasing pressure as it perpetuates an environment of low growth and high unemployment. The initial crisis may have passed but longer term issues haven't. If Thursday was about joining the EU, with its mandatory acceptance of conditions such as the Euro and Schengen, there's little doubt it would be overwhelmingly defeated. The concept of central control and a planned economy died years ago. The Eurozone is, from a fiscal point of view, a planned economy. It's an idea whose time has longed passed. We need to vote to come out, start the process of dismantling the vanity project that is the Eurozone and go back to what we had, which was a Common Market where countries are free to make the economic decisions that best suit them, not that best suit Germany.
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