EU referendum

[MadchesterCity]

Closer than I thought, we need to tighten our borders and stop all these nut Jones from coming to UK. We need to remove all Islamic extremists from UK

 

[CityStu]

I'll deal with the closest and biggest threat first and that's them.
I have yet to see anything in Europe as brain dead as these chumps.
Tbh i don't consider FPTP as realistic reflection of a democracy. Yes people vote but millions are ignored or have to vote tactically just because of where they live.

You won't have a chance to deal with the EU threat again though. You get to vote on the UK government again in 4 years but it's been 40 years since we had any say on the EU.

Just because the threat isn't immediate doesn't mean you should cast it out of your mind. It's like swerving to avoid a cat and smashing into an oncoming HGV.

I don't see FPTP as particularly fair either, but the fairest method would have got you an even more right wing blend of Tory and UKIP so that is currently the will of the people.

 

[crazyadi]

why does it appear from this thread that the "in crowd" have no real argument so resort to name calling and slagging people off? very hard line almost fascist!

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Returning you to my ignore list.

Great. Only sensible thing you have said and done.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

You won't have a chance to deal with the EU threat again though. You get to vote on the UK government again in 4 years but it's been 40 years since we had any say on the EU.

Just because the threat isn't immediate doesn't mean you should cast it out of your mind. It's like swerving to avoid a cat and smashing into an oncoming HGV.

I don't see FPTP as particularly fair either, but the fairest method would have got you an even more right wing blend of Tory and UKIP so that is currently the will of the people.

How big is your cat? i am sure i could see a HGV behind it. (yes its a shit joke)
Why would we have to leave it 40 years?
It won't be out of my mind, far from it. If we can stay in we are in a position to affect things, out of of it we are not. I am no fan of everything they do but they get far more right than wrong.
That is very true and i would still be moaning but it would be less thing to moan about. If everyone's vote counts you have to take it on the chin.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Maybe you are not doing your own research? There is plenty of information to support a Brexit if you can be bothered to search for it but ultimately it comes down to your political leanings and whether you are a person that likes to feel secure with an autocracy directing things.
The problem I'm seeing is that most people are confused and basically lazy or haven't got the time or the inclination to sort it out for themselves and want to be told how to think. I include myself to a degree in that. I am beginning to recognise that the heart of the issue is with the Common Agricultural Policy because that is where most of the money goes but that is a complicated field in itself. The group that have their eye in are the farmers as they are at the sharp end of the CAP so their opinions and arguments are worth noting. At the moment their forum is in favour of leaving by a good margin. The Government propaganda machine doesn't want to go there (CAP) because it could reflect very badly on staying in. They would rather you remain ignorant of how our money is dished out, to whom, where and for what. The farmers themselves are trying to see through the smoke that clouds any clear vision of EU (agricultural) finance. I could write reams on it but I'd rather leave it to the farmers to argue the toss.
The reality is that there are no clear cut assurances for a secure future whether we stay or go. It will probably come down to a visceral decision in the end. How the nation feels in its gut.

The European Union is not an autocracy and if you think some glorious independent blessed Albion will emerge from Brexit, somehow more robust from the buffeting effects of global capitalism and with an independent foreign policy, and that somehow we'll negotiate standalone, super rapid, favourable trade deals (which typically take years) then you're fooling yourself.

I know about the European Union as a trading bloc and a political entity, it makes sense as a trading bloc and it makes sense as a political entity, it makes sense as a military bloc as well but that's a question for another day. There is not one rational argument I've heard for leaving the EU either economic or political and if CAP is your best shot then you've already lost the argument, whether you'll lose the referendum is another matter.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

I think if a lot of the remain camp saw first hand how their money gets pissed up against the wall in dodgy euro projects they would reconsider. The amount of eu money that has been pocketed by officials is gob smacking, I'm only speaking about Portugal but maybe things are better in Italy, Spain, Greece and the east European countries...

If we had a referendum here I'd vote in but if I was in the uk, Germany , holland I would be out...its just a socialist experiment in redistribution of wealth from north to south/east and soon to the Middle East...anyway guys keep the cash coming it's much appreciated :-)

 

[coleridge]

 

[EalingBlue2]

You won't have a chance to deal with the EU threat again though. You get to vote on the UK government again in 4 years but it's been 40 years since we had any say on the EU.

Just because the threat isn't immediate doesn't mean you should cast it out of your mind. It's like swerving to avoid a cat and smashing into an oncoming HGV.

I don't see FPTP as particularly fair either, but the fairest method would have got you an even more right wing blend of Tory and UKIP so that is currently the will of the people.

You clearly don't understand how any of the EU leadership are chosen as all gone from decisions from democratically elected governments . You have a say in the EU just as you do in the uk - you are just a smaller fish in a bigger pond. You don't have that much influence with your vote on your local counciller let alone the UK anyway

 

[CityStu]

You clearly don't understand how any of the EU leadership are chosen as all gone from decisions from democratically elected governments . You have a say in the EU just as you do in the uk - you are just a smaller fish in a bigger pond. You don't have that much influence with your vote on your local counciller let alone the UK anyway

Legislation comes from the EU Commission and Commissioners are not elected, they are chosen by the leader (not necessarily government) of each EU member state. I don't call a one-off decision by Cameron democratic given 35k of the UK's 60m people voted for him. I bet the majority of people couldn't name the UK's European Commissioner.