EU referendum

[EalingBlue2]

The EU is one big cash grab for the benefit of the few and always has been, it has imposed itself as a middle man and stolen/redirected Billions if not Trillions over the years while producing nothing.

British democracy has actually been built far more for the above than Europe has, Europe has always (well since 1789) spread the wealth more and had far less of this than the uk.

Look at the vote here being led by wealthy Tory white boys whose sole interest is protecting and enriching their friends from Eton and Oxford university and taking benefits from the disabled.

As a reason for voting out the above is the equivalent of giving up supporting Arsenal and moving to supporting PSG because you don't like the French or wealthy owners

 

[KenTheLandlord]

That will do for me, i am in.

 

[CityStu]

That will do for me, i am in.

Which EU countries have pledged to veto TTIP and when? The only possibility I can find is Greece and I'm pretty sure they made that statement while Syriza were acting Billy Big Bollocks, before they bent over for Germany.

 

[YPhrunts]

What's that? "Stay in Europe to change Europe?"
Got to be a joke surely. Cameron couldn't even get changes on minor issues in his recent negotiations. It was all a fudge and he wouldn't even have got a hearing if it wasn't for the fact that we have a referendum coming up. He came back with as good as f*ck all.
Europe is beyond reform. The fiscal pact is enshrined in EU law and there is absolutely no way we are ever going to push that in a different direction. Greece found that out the hard way.
I never understand the argument that states that leaving the EU will not save the UK from TTIP. Staying is hardly going to save us from it, considering that it's the EU that is negotiating the bloody thing.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Which EU countries have pledged to veto TTIP and when? The only possibility I can find is Greece and I'm pretty sure they made that statement while Syriza were acting Billy Big Bollocks, before they bent over for Germany.

If it's not clear it does not mean country per country, remember it means it needs the EP to vote it through 100% and the EP is split across the political spectrum and there are enough figures from Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Spain, Slovenia, Sweden and even the UK to prevent it. Hence, the last bit in which it has mentioned opposition to the TTIP.

There is also the EEA countries who will be affected and they are also struggling to be 100%, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

What's that? "Stay in Europe to change Europe?"
Got to be a joke surely. Cameron couldn't even get changes on minor issues in his recent negotiations. It was all a fudge and he wouldn't even have got a hearing if it wasn't for the fact that we have a referendum coming up. He came back with as good as f*ck all.

It has always been the problem that the UK dips its foot in and takes what it wants and moans like fuck when it does not suit.
Rolled eyes over Europe is the result.
The old adage you only get out what you put in, certainly counts here.

 

[CityStu]

If it's not clear it does not mean country per country, remember it means it needs the EP to vote it through 100% and the EP is split across the political spectrum and there are enough figures from Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Spain, Slovenia, Sweden and even the UK to prevent it. Hence, the last bit in which it has mentioned opposition to the TTIP.

There is also the EEA countries who will be affected and they are also struggling to be 100%, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

No, your graphic states that "TTIP needs the approval of all 28 EU countries - and some of them have pledged to veto it". Which EU countries have pledged to veto TTIP?

I get that there is a wide political spectrum across Europe, but even in the UK both Labour and Conservatives are pro-TTIP.

I really don't like some of the ideas of TTIP but I think a protest within this country can garner a lot more momentum than a Europe wide one (3m is nothing considering there are nearly 750m people in the EU). I also think that the UK government is far more accountable than the EU. If I don't like ideas they propose then I can vote for someone else - I can't do that in the EU.

 

[bluethrunthru]

It has always been the problem that the UK dips its foot in and takes what it wants and moans like fuck when it does not suit.
Rolled eyes over Europe is the result.
The old adage you only get out what you put in, certainly counts here.

I agree - who ever listens to the nutter shouting from the sidelines?

 

[YPhrunts]

Spurious and misinformed nonsense, Britain has just 8.4% of the votes in the Council of Ministers with 26% needed to block legislation. There is no 'collegiate' EU, as Merkel demonstrated last year. We may moan about regulations but we never have the clout to alter any of the leftish nonsense.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

No, your graphic states that "TTIP needs the approval of all 28 EU countries - and some of them have pledged to veto it". Which EU countries have pledged to veto TTIP?

I get that there is a wide political spectrum across Europe, but even in the UK both Labour and Conservatives are pro-TTIP.

I really don't like some of the ideas of TTIP but I think a protest within this country can garner a lot more momentum than a Europe wide one (3m is nothing considering there are nearly 750m people in the EU). I also think that the UK government is far more accountable than the EU. If I don't like ideas they propose then I can vote for someone else - I can't do that in the EU.

I have explained that part, sorry you don't like it.
I am not a fan of TTIP either but i certainly don't think we would be better on our own.
There are other TTIPs going on round the world including TTP (tie ups for US, Japan, Australia, Canada etc etc) and one with the middle east whose name escapes me.
Most countries will be tied into these soon and now is not the time to be trying to renegotiate everything.

 

[CityStu]

I have explained that part, sorry you don't like it.
I am not a fan of TTIP either but i certainly don't think we would be better on our own.
There are other TTIPs going on round the world including TTP (tie ups for US, Japan, Australia, Canada etc etc) and one with the middle east whose name escapes me.
Most countries will be tied into these soon and now is not the time to be trying to renegotiate everything.

It's not that I don't like it, I simply don't understand it.

Your initial post has said that some countries have pledged to veto TTIP within the EU. I have looked for evidence of this and cannot find any, so I am asking you to back up your initial post.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

It's not that I don't like it, I simply don't understand it.

Your initial post has said that some countries have pledged to veto TTIP within the EU. I have looked for evidence of this and cannot find any, so I am asking you to back up your initial post.

I can see where you come from but you have missed the next bit - and some of them have pledged to veto it.
Meaning the people who will vote for it. All the countries votes will be split along ideological lines and it is them that will not vote for it.
Hence it is not certain it will go through.

 

[blueonblue]

British democracy has actually been built far more for the above than Europe has, Europe has always (well since 1789) spread the wealth more and had far less of this than the uk.

Look at the vote here being led by wealthy Tory white boys whose sole interest is protecting and enriching their friends from Eton and Oxford university and taking benefits from the disabled.

As a reason for voting out the above is the equivalent of giving up supporting Arsenal and moving to supporting PSG because you don't like the French or wealthy owners

Your first statement is utter tosh, the EU has not only been riddled with corruption from the off, but the unaccountably has let it continue and grow in a way that would be impossible in a democracy like the UK, we still have a vote and a court system separated from the state by the Law.

Your next is a wonder, in that I wonder how you and your little leftie cohorts would react if someone were to post a phrase like "Labour Black boys", while your disdain for anyone who made it farther than the local polytechnic shows you up as the little class warrior you see yourself as rather than a right thinking individual trying to make a valid point.

 

[Chipmeister]

Well said Blue n blue,

 

[SWP's back]

I agree - who ever listens to the nutter shouting from the sidelines?

Certainly not our players as the corpse **** rarely shouts.

 

[SWP's back]

Your first statement is utter tosh, the EU has not only been riddled with corruption from the off, but the unaccountably has let it continue and grow in a way that would be impossible in a democracy like the UK, we still have a vote and a court system separated from the state by the Law.

Your next is a wonder, in that I wonder how you and your little leftie cohorts would react if someone were to post a phrase like "Labour Black boys", while your disdain for anyone who made it farther than the local polytechnic shows you up as the little class warrior you see yourself as rather than a right thinking individual trying to make a valid point.

Well said mate. He's one of the reasons I don't really even read this thread very much anymore. It's the same one or two voices every day shouting this and that. The funny thing is that despite that and their mocking disdain for all they don't agree with, the Bluemoon vote is strengthening toward 'Out' so fuck knows who they think they are influencing.

Still, if it keeps them away from playing in the road then it's ok I guess.

 

[InMyLifetime-BaconChops]

I think some people are blinded by the idea that we wouldn't trade if we leave the EU...
Arguably the EU need us more than we need them...we are their 2nd biggest economy...where else will they start sourcing all are exports from?
Yes tariffs will come into play; but there will both be export&import tariffs.

The US still remains our second biggest trading partner to Germany at 10%...that wouldn't change.
Whilst the fundamental idea of the EU is fantastic with free movement of labour, one single currency...it just doesn't work.
Whether it's the migrant crisis, one country fucking it up for all (Greece) it just simply doesn't work in practice.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Your first statement is utter tosh, the EU has not only been riddled with corruption from the off, but the unaccountably has let it continue and grow in a way that would be impossible in a democracy like the UK, we still have a vote and a court system separated from the state by the Law.

Your next is a wonder, in that I wonder how you and your little leftie cohorts would react if someone were to post a phrase like "Labour Black boys", while your disdain for anyone who made it farther than the local polytechnic shows you up as the little class warrior you see yourself as rather than a right thinking individual trying to make a valid point.

Fair point should have said Tory upper class Boys, it is the fact that so many still allow so few to manipulate them and fill their heads with propaganda rather than think about the real issues and it works magically. it is amazing what people are kidded in to or to choose to believe it really is. It is also amazing how a few people can manipulate so many to maintain their self interests . The EU has some big issues but so many on here are myths and show the deep lack of understanding around this.

But what says it all is the consistent theme that a British PM makes democratic decisions when part of the U.K. But makes undemocratic ones on the EU and is a consistent and direct contradiction

 

[EalingBlue2]

I think some people are blinded by the idea that we wouldn't trade if we leave the EU...
Arguably the EU need us more than we need them...we are their 2nd biggest economy...where else will they start sourcing all are exports from?
Yes tariffs will come into play; but there will both be export&import tariffs.

The US still remains our second biggest trading partner to Germany at 10%...that wouldn't change.
Whilst the fundamental idea of the EU is fantastic with free movement of labour, one single currency...it just doesn't work.
Whether it's the migrant crisis, one country fucking it up for all (Greece) it just simply doesn't work in practice.

You could make everyone of those arguments equally validly for breaking up England, let alone the UK, England doesn't work for many many millions of people .

 

[EalingBlue2]

Well said mate. He's one of the reasons I don't really even read this thread very much anymore. It's the same one or two voices every day shouting this and that. The funny thing is that despite that and their mocking disdain for all they don't agree with, the Bluemoon vote is strengthening toward 'Out' so fuck knows who they think they are influencing.

Still, if it keeps them away from playing in the road then it's ok I guess.

It was never about influencing and from your comments it is clearly having the desired effect