EU referendum

[KenTheLandlord]

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings Ken old chap but, this is most definitely a two way street. I acknowledge that do you.

Still on the balance of probability and likelihood, I choose out - as is my prerogative!

Is that you Bobby Brown? and without doubt everyone has the right to their own view and vote.

Equally if someone sees something that is wrong, they will speak up.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Equally if someone sees something that is wrong, they will speak up.

Precisely. Just as I am doing here and no doubt you will argue that you are doing the same

 

[blueonblue]

Cases that can be destroyed as they are either mistruths or the UK government trying to land the shit on the EU carpet.

Well done, you have just made the case for getting rid of the EU ;0)

The number one frustration when dealing with big organisations is the lack of responsibility, "Its a different department" or "Those are our rules" ect, and your only recourse is to either take your business elsewhere or suck it up because you are powerless to anything else.

Out of the EU, the government of the day whatever its makeup is where the buck stops, with the desire to stay in the job ensuring that if a majority of people object to things it gets changed or they get voted out, because they have nothing to hide behind or blame for their actions.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Do you honestly not see why a Hindu Indian, a Pakistani Moslem and a Punjabi Sikh might not all be Bucketed together. For interest are you of immigrant or indigenous descent?

Interesting piece that at the end as it showed the building that was a church become a synagogue then a mosque and the East End has always been a melting pot of races. To be fair though i wouldnt want to be wandering abarht as a Pearly King, the scruffs.

Yeah but they all come from the same area, unlike Britain, Germany, France, Spain and the rest of Europe.
Ironic that European area is probably about half the size of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh but its fine to lump them together..

 

[EalingBlue2]

Interesting piece that at the end as it showed the building that was a church become a synagogue then a mosque and the East End has always been a melting pot of races. To be fair though i wouldnt want to be wandering abarht as a Pearly King, the scruffs.

Yeah but they all come from the same area, unlike Britain, Germany, France, Spain and the rest of Europe.
Ironic that European area is probably about half the size of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh but its fine to lump them together..

Somewhat ironic to group together a group of south Asians as an argument against grouping together west Europeans

 

[cibaman]

As. Opposed to being directed by unaccountable leaders, (the EU commissioners), being forced to travel at the speed of the slowest economies (Greece, Romania, soon to be (possibly) Turkey), being held to ransom by countries that are unaffected by the issues in question so they can get something that is against our own interests, trying to run a fair democracy when there are just too many stakeholders and it's just too bureaucratic, trying to run a one size fits all economy and currency when everyone knows it just doesn't work, can you really expect the Greks, Bulgarians, Romanians etc to pay the same price for goods and services as the Germans for example?

The examples I quoted were given in direct response to a direct question from Bluehammer85 and are not exclusive.

I worked on a DFT projectaround the implementation of Digital Tachograohs and Graduated Fixed Penalties at the roadside. Both projects were over 5 years late in delivering, the main reason why....? Translations. It took over 5 years and countless meetings in Brussels and various other countries to agree on wording and then the translations fron English into their own language which when translated back to English often meant something other than what it was meant too, sometimes the opposite. It was a joke. And you seriously think we could run a state and economy on that basis? I don't think so!

If we leave the EU do you think we will do our own thing when it comes to motor wattages on vacuum cleaners? Will Dyson make sure that his vacuum cleaners can be sold in the UK but not the EU? Will he have factories producing UK vacuum cleaners and, separately, EU vacuum cleaners?

Will it become a golden age where we set our own technical standards irrespective of the legislation the EU introduces?

 

[blueonblue]

If we leave the EU do you think we will do our own thing when it comes to motor wattages on vacuum cleaners? Will Dyson make sure that his vacuum cleaners can be sold in the UK but not the EU? Will he have factories producing UK vacuum cleaners and, separately, EU vacuum cleaners?

He, like every other manufacture in the world, will tailor the product to meet the market he wants to sell in, but he can not sell to the rest of the world if his vacuum cleaners could not do the job as well as the unlimited ones on sale in the rest of the world, and that is a far bigger market.

 

[west didsblue]

Do you honestly not see why a Hindu Indian, a Pakistani Moslem and a Punjabi Sikh might not all be Bucketed together. For interest are you of immigrant or indigenous descent?

You might not have noticed, but they were bracketed by nationality and religion was not mentioned.

 

[EalingBlue2]

You might not have noticed, but they were bracketed by nationality and religion was not mentioned.

That's the point it's meaningless and arbitrary , aggregating makes no sense

 

[hgblue]

If we leave the EU do you think we will do our own thing when it comes to motor wattages on vacuum cleaners? Will Dyson make sure that his vacuum cleaners can be sold in the UK but not the EU? Will he have factories producing UK vacuum cleaners and, separately, EU vacuum cleaners?

Will it become a golden age where we set our own technical standards irrespective of the legislation the EU introduces?

Businesses that export to the EU will abide by the standards set by the EU. I fail to see why this is a reason to stay in the EU when the vast majority of businesses don't export to the EU?

 

[ello_jo]

Them foreigners though..

 

[west didsblue]

That's the point it's meaningless and arbitrary , aggregating makes no sense

Actually, raising it as a point on this thread was arbitrary and irrelevant to the discussion as membership of the EU or otherwise will make no difference to the ethnic make up of that area. However to pretend 17% is not a minority is wrong. Everyone in that area lives as part of a minority group. It's arguable which is the largest minority depending on how they are grouped, but as I said it's not relevant to this discussion.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

That's the point it's meaningless and arbitrary , aggregating makes no sense[/QUOT
It does if you are the 17 percent who has seen your historical culture and the area grow up with So called multiculturalism be diluted such that your culture is now largely extinguished.

People really are concerned by this. I grew up in Oldham my parents still live there . Thye hate it. They feel really lets down by the changing demographic. I am not saying Oldham used to be a lovely place but it is now recognised officially as the poorest area in the uk to live in. I am afraid the strength of feeling is very strong on this one . It's easy to call them rascist and a bit lazy tbh but until you have grew up in one area and see the effects it can have to change an entire place over a period of 20 or so years it's really amazing.

I don't think the Eu vote by the way changes this as pockets of people in the uk and getting them to mix is difficult. By the way in Oldham communities by in large don't mix and have not for many years, it may be have been different. Immigration and the challenges of immigration is hard and amongst older people who have seen the massive change first hand and to simply ignore it or dismiss it as some form of irrelevant point is ignorant from you. You know the point he is making about aggregating you are just trying to be smart.

 

[cibaman]

Businesses that export to the EU will abide by the standards set by the EU. I fail to see why this is a reason to stay in the EU when the vast majority of businesses don't export to the EU?

The argument was the other way round, that EU legislation is so onerous as to be a good reason to leave. With vacuum cleaner wattages being cited as one example. I doubt that there are many UK vacuum cleaner manufacturers that don't also export to the EU and will no longer have to worry about these rules if we leave. I'm not saying we should stay in because of EU legislation just that I don't believe that there's a clear case for leaving because of them.

 

[abu13]

The most damning thing for me about the whole situation is that for all the undecided voters they will need to make a choice, and the fact is I no longer trust my own goverment to give me the facts needed for me to make the best decision for the average family. Years of corruption have taken their toll and the distrust of our politicians is down to their actions.

I am leaning towards leaving Europe but have to admit some of this feeling is purely down to Dodgy Dave argueing that we need to stay and I wouldn't believe anything that he says.

 

[smudgedj]

The most damning thing for me about the whole situation is that for all the undecided voters they will need to make a choice, and the fact is I no longer trust my own goverment to give me the facts needed for me to make the best decision for the average family. Years of corruption have taken their toll and the distrust of our politicians is down to their actions.

I am leaning towards leaving Europe but have to admit some of this feeling is purely down to Dodgy Dave argueing that we need to stay and I wouldn't believe anything that he says.

Well you´re not wrong there; Why would a Conservative Prime Minister wish to remain in a socialist superstate.

 

[Monkfish]

He, like every other manufacture in the world, will tailor the product to meet the market he wants to sell in, but he can not sell to the rest of the world if his vacuum cleaners could not do the job as well as the unlimited ones on sale in the rest of the world, and that is a far bigger market.

Loads of hypermarkets will open up in Dover selling hoovers to the Europeans starved of extra hoover wattage. It will be booze cruise all over again, just needs a catchy name.

 

[hgblue]

The argument was the other way round, that EU legislation is so onerous as to be a good reason to leave. With vacuum cleaner wattages being cited as one example. I doubt that there are many UK vacuum cleaner manufacturers that don't also export to the EU and will no longer have to worry about these rules if we leave. I'm not saying we should stay in because of EU legislation just that I don't believe that there's a clear case for leaving because of them.

It may be that I'm missing something, in fact I'm sure I must be, because the economic case for staying is supposed to be so compelling. Something like 95% of UK businesses don't export to the EU but are subject to all the regulations. Admitting that those businesses who do export to the EU will continue to have to abide by EU standards does not mean that it wouldn't be an advantage to those who don't. Again, most of the planet isn't in the EU and trades perfectly happily with it, yet we're going to be doomed if we exit? The worse case scenario is 2% tariffs which amounts to less than our net contribution, so what am I missing?

 

[Helmet Cole]

Well you´re not wrong there; Why would a Conservative Prime Minister wish to remain in a socialist superstate.

I think the difference between conservative and socialist has been more one of branding than substance since 'new' labour came along. Any deviation from the center right such as corbyn or farage is instantly jumped on by the media and other politicians as somehow ridiculous, invalid, or extreme. Its pretty shady tbh, and we are gently being shepherded towards what is effectively single party politics at home as quickly as we are herded into a federation by the EU. I'm sure nutters like Hitler and Stalin would have approved, although they would have found these reforms a bit slow going and inclusive for their liking ;-)

 

[BigJoe#1]

If we leave the EU do you think we will do our own thing when it comes to motor wattages on vacuum cleaners? Will Dyson make sure that his vacuum cleaners can be sold in the UK but not the EU? Will he have factories producing UK vacuum cleaners and, separately, EU vacuum cleaners?

Will it become a golden age where we set our own technical standards irrespective of the legislation the EU introduces?

I think you're missing the point.... never mind, if you're content to have unelected people dictating to you how you should live your life, who am i to argue?

To me this is the thin edge of the wedge.

That said, what are your views on full political integration, fully open borders and the U.K. Joining the Euro? I am genuinely interested as I think if we're in then we're all in, especially if we want to sit at the high table and be an effective part of the key decision making processes and believe me, all the key decisions will be based around theEuro and how to make it stronger with little or no regard for the £ or British opinion - not that we'd be allowed to express one I any case.