Sorry, there might be a bit of crossed wires. I’m suggesting the prestige of the competition doesn’t originate from it being called the UEFA champions league. It originates from it being the premier club competition in Europe. Obviously if they change the format/rules that will have an effect on how it’s perceived. I’m just not sure UEFA can take the moral high ground of them being the bastions of European football.It's not a rebrand you're suggesting though.
As I explained in another reply, I’m not behind the idea of the super league. I’m just opposed to the idea of UEFA being the bastion of European football. They control football to suit whatever is in their own best interest and we as city fans should know thatA breakaway competition will never have the same prestige as one held under the well regulated and established FIFA Umbrella.
The money UEFA obtain through the Champions League and other competitions is shared through the national associations throughout Europe (and Isreal) for the promotion of ASSOCIATION FOOTBALL.
This concept is to try and deny money going to grass roots football in Lithuania or Macedonia but instead going to wealthy club owners to increase dividends or clear debts from their overspending.
Can't be arsed checking the fine details, but an article on the new CL format suggested UEFA made around 3.5 billion from the current format and would make approximately one billion more from next season due to more games in the mini-league stage that replaces the group stage. - I think the currency was Euro rather than pounds but it's still a huge increase. The article implied the increase was due higher broadcast revenue.How much money does Uefa make from selling TV revenue for the CL? And how much do the clubs get from it?
And is this just UEFA or would all this be true with regards to the PL too?
That's also how the Six Nations is run. No direct involvement from any regulation body like World Rugby and it is still popular with fans of the sport.You could also frame the argument in that are you watching it because it has UEFA slapped on it or are you watching it because its the best teams in europe competing against each other. If the best teams in europe created the champions league away from UEFA with all the current rules then it would still get the same viewership.
How much money does Uefa make from selling TV revenue for the CL? And how much do the clubs get from it?
And is this just UEFA or would all this be true with regards to the PL too?
Totally different scenarios.That's also how the Six Nations is run. No direct involvement from any regulation body like World Rugby and it is still popular with fans of the sport.
Same with football if it was that way.
UEFA stands for the Union of European Football Associations. It's just the body that represents Europe's Football Associations, like the Premier League is the body that represents the 20 clubs in the league.At present UEFA take a huge slice of the broadcasting and sponsor payments while the broadcasters take all the pay-per-view and advertising revenues. Streaming techhnology means that clubs can produce their own broadcasts and take the lot. The clubs own the content so should get the lions' share of the revenue. This is what the whole breakaway row is about. Last year's CL final apparently had 450 million viewers across the globe. Why should the clubs give away their content for peanuts? It is nothing to do with the law. It is globalisation (whether we like it or not). If UEFA wants to survive it will have to give up its monopoly.
UEFA isn't the issue. The Football Associations who make up UEFA aren't so much of an issue. It's the G14 of European elite clubs who're the issue.As I explained in another reply, I’m not behind the idea of the super league. I’m just opposed to the idea of UEFA being the bastion of European football. They control football to suit whatever is in their own best interest and we as city fans should know that
UEFA isn't the issue. The Football Associations who make up UEFA aren't so much of an issue. It's the G14 of European elite clubs who're the issue.
They want a bigger slice of the UEFA pie for themselves & more power. They believe they are the CL brand & should be remunerated as such, hence the plans for the ESL.
Unfortunately most global fans couldn't be arsed with Europe's Football pyramid arguments. Put Bayern vs Real in front of them, & they're tuning in.
This is what the ESL is counting on, & what UEFA fears.
UEFA's concerns are many & are coming at them from all different angles.Can buy most of that, except for the part about UEFA fearing it.
They used to fear it when the cheese-eating surrender monkey was running it, but I think Ceferin is made of sterner stuff. And he has the European Union, the national governments, the domestic federations and most of the European fanbase lined up behind him against the idea of an ESL. And yes, he still has the means under the ECJ ruling to prevent an ESL unless it matches UEFA's commitment to the football pyramid under the European Sports Model. It doesn't matter what the global fanbase wants, I would imagine UEFA won't let the ESL get off the ground if it weakens the domestic leagues, unless qualification to the ESL is based on annual domestic league performance and unless substantial contributions are paid to UEFA to be passed down to the various organisations it supports, for example. By the time all that has happened, it just becomes a CL, EL and the ECL replacement and the question becomes, what is the point? You may say each club will be able to negotiate its own broadcasting deals, but what is this interest in that for any club other than the five or six you have mentioned who can make the most out of it? It would just become like the Spanish league.
I really don't see how this thing happens. At least, imo it will be mired in legal disputes for another four or five years, by which time the CL and the CWC will be the two dominant club competitions, with compensation to match.
Of course, I may be wrong and we are at the beginning of a new era. But not for me.
I know. Personally I am off looking for a thread where everyone is calling each other cuntsThere's some good debate in this thread, quite informative.
UEFA's concerns are many & are coming at them from all different angles.
I'm still trying to ascertain if UEFA can legally ban the setting up of the ESL within their structure, or if they can ban it outside their structure too.
Will UEFA & FIFA press the nuclear button & ban all clubs, players, officials & staff participating in the ESL from all its football related competitions & businesses globally?
If they dare, how would the G14 clubs react?
Both UEFA & the ESL are claiming victory over the ECJ's ruling. There's a helluva lot of caveats, moves & counter moves which could be made by both sides yet.
UEFA could even decide to give CL clubs more money, & massively increase the participation & prize money as a way of ending the ESL threat.
There's a lot of unanswered questions, with a lot for UEFA to be concerned with imho.
The only way UEFA can increase participation & prize money is to bring in extra revenue to cover it, or cut what they give to the football pyramid.Presumably you are aware that the G14 (18) group doesn't exist anymore and the club body is the ECA?
If you are simply using the term with reference to the "big boys" and the original players with us included, they are categorically no longer a homogeneous group. The English clubs, German clubs, PSG and Atletico Madrid are all out of the equation for the foreseeable future and possibly some of the Italian clubs as well. The "battle" will rumble on but this ain't happening anytime soon. IMO.
As an aside, where do UEFA get the funds to "massively" increase the participation and prize money bearing in mind this big increase as part of the new format from 2024? They can't simply just decide to give out more.
UEFA's concerns are many & are coming at them from all different angles.
I'm still trying to ascertain if UEFA can legally ban the setting up of the ESL within their structure, or if they can ban it outside their structure too.
Will UEFA & FIFA press the nuclear button & ban all clubs, players, officials & staff participating in the ESL from all its football related competitions & businesses globally?
If they dare, how would the G14 clubs react?
Both UEFA & the ESL are claiming victory over the ECJ's ruling. There's a helluva lot of caveats, moves & counter moves which could be made by both sides yet.
UEFA could even decide to give CL clubs more money, & massively increase the participation & prize money as a way of ending the ESL threat.
There's a lot of unanswered questions, with a lot for UEFA to be concerned with imho.
Is that setting up the ESL inside or outside of UEFA/FIFA?If you want to bone up on this, you can read the ESL judgment on line, and refer to previous judgments from the ECJ in respect of governing sports bodies, the approval of tournaments and the punishment of clubs and players. Puts the whole into a little more perspective, I think.
The key for me is this part: that UEFA doesn't have the power to disapprove a tournament "where there is no framework for those various powers providing for substantive criteria and detailed procedural rules suitable for ensuring that they are transparent, objective, non-discriminatory and proportionate". This is entirely consistent from the ECJ and was entirely predictable. There was no framework in place for ESL1 (if you will). I am sure there is now.
Is that setting up the ESL inside or outside of UEFA/FIFA?
As an aside, where do UEFA get the funds to "massively" increase the participation and prize money bearing in mind this big increase as part of the new format from 2024? They can't simply just decide to give out more.
Can UEFA stop the ESL being independently setup outside of it's governance?The ECJ judgment was just about the specific case of the actions taken by UEFA against the ESL two years ago. So, an external tournament under the governance of, but not organised, by UEFA, disapproved in the absence of any approval criteria
But, like I say, there are enough ECJ judgments on governing bodies in sport and what they can and can't do to put this judgment into the context of an ESM if you have the time to look.