You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Euthanasia, Death and General Anesthetics.
- Thread starter Bill Walker
- Start date
BlueMoonRisin’
Well-Known Member
My brother and i have been our 88 year old mum's carer for about 18 months now and it's getting harder to cope by the day. 14 months ago she fell and had to go in Tameside hospital for 3 weeks, couldn't even visit her due to covid restrictions.
Ever since then she's become more immobile and is now totally housebound. My brother and I both agreed we won't put her in a care home because we both feel duty bound to give her a decent quality of life. He works and when he's at work mostly 6 - 2-30) I'm at hers. We have to help shower and dress her and cook and clean. I take her out in the car and push her round in her wheelchair.
Shopping is a nightmare because she can't decide what she wants, and when she does she doesn't want it cos it's gone up 5p from the last shop! I have started doing a shop on my own now because pushing her round the supermarket takes too long.
We did have a local care firm come out twice a day but they'd regularly turn up an hour and half late, sometimes up to 3 hours. One carer tuned up at 10:30pm to put her to bed and mum had been in bed since 8! She came out with some crap excuse as the others did whenthey turned up late. Mum told the manager she didn't want them coming and cancelled. A week or so later I had the manager on the phone asking why she cancelled them coming. I told her they were not fulfilling their duties and therefore we didn't need them turning up late almost every day.
Sometimes I'm at hers up to 65 hours a week and I'm finding it harder to cope but if we put her in a care home then she'll just sit in a semi circle watching programs on TV she doesn't like. At least she has a choice of what she wants to watch at home, plus she gets proper home cooked food she enjoys.
I feel my life is on hold but she gave us a good upbringing so we so what we can for her as she deserves it.
I forgot to mention that she is in the early stages of dementia and has become incontinent recently. It's not easy being a carer, never thought it would be this hard tbh.
Ever since then she's become more immobile and is now totally housebound. My brother and I both agreed we won't put her in a care home because we both feel duty bound to give her a decent quality of life. He works and when he's at work mostly 6 - 2-30) I'm at hers. We have to help shower and dress her and cook and clean. I take her out in the car and push her round in her wheelchair.
Shopping is a nightmare because she can't decide what she wants, and when she does she doesn't want it cos it's gone up 5p from the last shop! I have started doing a shop on my own now because pushing her round the supermarket takes too long.
We did have a local care firm come out twice a day but they'd regularly turn up an hour and half late, sometimes up to 3 hours. One carer tuned up at 10:30pm to put her to bed and mum had been in bed since 8! She came out with some crap excuse as the others did whenthey turned up late. Mum told the manager she didn't want them coming and cancelled. A week or so later I had the manager on the phone asking why she cancelled them coming. I told her they were not fulfilling their duties and therefore we didn't need them turning up late almost every day.
Sometimes I'm at hers up to 65 hours a week and I'm finding it harder to cope but if we put her in a care home then she'll just sit in a semi circle watching programs on TV she doesn't like. At least she has a choice of what she wants to watch at home, plus she gets proper home cooked food she enjoys.
I feel my life is on hold but she gave us a good upbringing so we so what we can for her as she deserves it.
I forgot to mention that she is in the early stages of dementia and has become incontinent recently. It's not easy being a carer, never thought it would be this hard tbh.
denislawsbackheel
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 28 May 2008
- Messages
- 26,073
- Team supported
- We went to Rotherham…
In advance though…I'll do it, £50
It's not easy mate. Pre COVID my in law was going out 3 times a week, just on bus to various places such as Sutton, Kingston, Wimbledon, Croydon. Her n husband would buy a few bits have coffee in Costa etc now it's a struggle to get her out at all even with my partner. Sits most days just stating into space or looking at TV but certainly not watching it. She complained other day she wasn't being fed, we went round she had plate sitting next to her with remnants of couple cheese sandwiches she'd had but didn't remember eating them. Her husband is 87 and mentally ok but needs stick/walker to get around so he is not capable of looking after bothMy brother and i have been our 88 year old mum's carer for about 18 months now and it's getting harder to cope by the day. 14 months ago she fell and had to go in Tameside hospital for 3 weeks, couldn't even visit her due to covid restrictions.
Ever since then she's become more immobile and is now totally housebound. My brother and I both agreed we won't put her in a care home because we both feel duty bound to give her a decent quality of life. He works and when he's at work mostly 6 - 2-30) I'm at hers. We have to help shower and dress her and cook and clean. I take her out in the car and push her round in her wheelchair.
Shopping is a nightmare because she can't decide what she wants, and when she does she doesn't want it cos it's gone up 5p from the last shop! I have started doing a shop on my own now because pushing her round the supermarket takes too long.
We did have a local care firm come out twice a day but they'd regularly turn up an hour and half late, sometimes up to 3 hours. One carer tuned up at 10:30pm to put her to bed and mum had been in bed since 8! She came out with some crap excuse as the others did whenthey turned up late. Mum told the manager she didn't want them coming and cancelled. A week or so later I had the manager on the phone asking why she cancelled them coming. I told her they were not fulfilling their duties and therefore we didn't need them turning up late almost every day.
Sometimes I'm at hers up to 65 hours a week and I'm finding it harder to cope but if we put her in a care home then she'll just sit in a semi circle watching programs on TV she doesn't like. At least she has a choice of what she wants to watch at home, plus she gets proper home cooked food she enjoys.
I feel my life is on hold but she gave us a good upbringing so we so what we can for her as she deserves it.
I forgot to mention that she is in the early stages of dementia and has become incontinent recently. It's not easy being a carer, never thought it would be this hard tbh.
I would back assisted dying for serious mental illness aswell.
The way the world is now if you are not a 'success' you face severe depression, psychosis and possibly addiction.
Hell you can be a 'success' and still face these things.
The world is fucking horrible and life for many is a curse and a burden, one they never asked for.
Actually some might find life easier if they knew they always had a pain free exit at hand.
The way the world is now if you are not a 'success' you face severe depression, psychosis and possibly addiction.
Hell you can be a 'success' and still face these things.
The world is fucking horrible and life for many is a curse and a burden, one they never asked for.
Actually some might find life easier if they knew they always had a pain free exit at hand.
kaz7
Well-Known Member
No, some mental health conditions can get better and you are in no frame of mind to be making that decision , it would never be allowedI would back assisted dying for serious mental illness aswell.
The way the world is now if you are not a 'success' you face severe depression, psychosis and possibly addiction.
Hell you can be a 'success' and still face these things.
The world is fucking horrible and life for many is a curse and a burden, one they never asked for.
Actually some might find life easier if they knew they always had a pain free exit at hand.
My partner's mum who has Parkinson's and dementia fell out of bed and father not able to look left her. She's been in hospital about 10 days. Every time my partner leaves after visiting her mum's crying saying please don't go you're leaving me here to die. Having official chat with father today to tell him unlikely she'll be home again. Been together 50 years and married for over 40. A solicitor who's family member coming to advise him in what will happen regarding her going into a home and when she does re him in sheltered accommodation (only been in care flat with warden for couple months. Not looking forward to this afternoon
urban genie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 May 2008
- Messages
- 32,591
The day I am fpund wandering the streets at 2am not knowing where or who I am and it isn't because I have been on a session then pull the plug.
I have had a decent life up to now and would hate for my family to be burdened with me if I start forgetting them and myself.
What I am saying is you (but only you) should have the choice to end your life medically assisted if you want to and for a real valid medical reason.
I have had a decent life up to now and would hate for my family to be burdened with me if I start forgetting them and myself.
What I am saying is you (but only you) should have the choice to end your life medically assisted if you want to and for a real valid medical reason.
Last edited:
ZenHalfTimeCrock
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 18 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 1,416
- Team supported
- Manchester City
No, some mental health conditions can get better and you are in no frame of mind to be making that decision , it would never be allowed
It has been in Belgium.
Sections of the above documentary follow the story of Eva, 34, who is described as suffering from ‘chronic, incurable, psychiatric illness’ (probably suicidal depression) who requests euthanasia because nothing she has tried has helped.
The case of Eva (whose request is eventually granted) raises the issue of whether doctor-assisted suicide should be extended to patients with severe mental health problems. It also touches on something known as the ‘slippery slope’ argument, which suggests that when euthanasia becomes legal for the worst kind of terminal illness, such as motor neurone disease, that it will eventually be made available to patients with less serious problems and issues, which could still be treatable.
In the documentary, Eva is presented as someone who has tried all the available treatments, though only one is specifically mentioned.
Supporters of voluntary euthanasia might believe that Eva should be put out of her mental misery if the doctors and psychiatrists agree with this decision. If she hates life, if the quality of her life is so poor, why force her to carry on living? However, there are some new forms of counselling and therapy that may prove to be effective when it comes to suicidal depression, such as Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) and Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT). So the viewer is left wondering whether these were ever made available to Eva, and at what point a patient like her deserves to be labelled as ‘incurable’.
ZenHalfTimeCrock
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 18 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 1,416
- Team supported
- Manchester City
For what it’s worth I taught about the issue of assisted dying for many years at A level and did a lot of reading about it. I am not unsympathetic to religion but this is one area that prominent religious figures should not, perhaps, be allowed to exercise any undue influence over (as they previously have in the House of Lords) because their agenda typically turns out to have a fideistic foundation when you delve into it, however well-intentioned they appear to be. Plus, their views are not logically compelling or supported by empirical research and surveys for the most part.
Let’s take Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby as an example. Recently, he stated that a change in the law would leave people open to “very, very intangible forms of coercion and pressure”.
This is not a persuasive argument. Quite some time ago, Mary Warnock and Elizabeth MacDonald co-authored a book in which they had this to say:
‘One of the fears most commonly expressed is that, if assisted dying were an option, patients in the last stages of their illness might have pressure put on them to ask for it, when it was not what they really wanted….There undoubtedly exist predatory or simply exhausted relatives. But it is insulting to those who ask to be allowed to die to assume that they are incapable of making an independent choice, free from influence…In any case, to ask for death for the sake of one’s children can [also] be seen as an admirable thing to do….Part of what makes a patient’s suffering intolerable may be the sense that he is ruining other people’s lives.'
Warnock and MacDonald also point out that research has shown that, ‘in both Oregon and the Netherlands, rates of assisted dying show no evidence of heightened risk for several vulnerable groups, notably the disabled, the elderly, and those with psychiatric illness.’
Additionally, Dr Penney Lewis has confirmed that there is no evidence that non-voluntary euthanasia has increased because of the legalisation of voluntary euthanasia in Holland. In other words, there is no evidence for a ‘slippery slope effect’ in that country. Dr Lewis has also found no evidence for this in Oregon and Belgium too.
Personally, the arguments for assisted dying ventured by usually secular authors like Baroness Warnock, Jonathan Glover, Ronald Dworkin and Peter Singer always seem more rational, compassionate, empirically grounded and convincing to me than those who are opposed to it.
Let’s take Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby as an example. Recently, he stated that a change in the law would leave people open to “very, very intangible forms of coercion and pressure”.
This is not a persuasive argument. Quite some time ago, Mary Warnock and Elizabeth MacDonald co-authored a book in which they had this to say:
‘One of the fears most commonly expressed is that, if assisted dying were an option, patients in the last stages of their illness might have pressure put on them to ask for it, when it was not what they really wanted….There undoubtedly exist predatory or simply exhausted relatives. But it is insulting to those who ask to be allowed to die to assume that they are incapable of making an independent choice, free from influence…In any case, to ask for death for the sake of one’s children can [also] be seen as an admirable thing to do….Part of what makes a patient’s suffering intolerable may be the sense that he is ruining other people’s lives.'
Warnock and MacDonald also point out that research has shown that, ‘in both Oregon and the Netherlands, rates of assisted dying show no evidence of heightened risk for several vulnerable groups, notably the disabled, the elderly, and those with psychiatric illness.’
Additionally, Dr Penney Lewis has confirmed that there is no evidence that non-voluntary euthanasia has increased because of the legalisation of voluntary euthanasia in Holland. In other words, there is no evidence for a ‘slippery slope effect’ in that country. Dr Lewis has also found no evidence for this in Oregon and Belgium too.
Personally, the arguments for assisted dying ventured by usually secular authors like Baroness Warnock, Jonathan Glover, Ronald Dworkin and Peter Singer always seem more rational, compassionate, empirically grounded and convincing to me than those who are opposed to it.