Everton (A) | PL | Post Match Thread

OB1 said:
They can both play in the same team.

Do they both get in our best XI when everyone is fit? Probably not but the best XI won’t necessarily be the same for every game And could vary depending on the gameplan.

What is certain is that Jack is the more experienced player by far and that is still a significant factor.
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I'm not arguing that at all.

Grealish has his uses for the 'control' everybody seems to prefer. That's fine.

But then one would have to agree that Grealish tends not to take players on and is, more often than not, rather predictable of where he's going to take the ball. You'll often see one defender track him and another defender further out to that defender's left for the outlay ball.

With Doku, you'll see minimum of two defenders in much closer proximity to try and stop the dribble through. That's the threat we fans (and I suspect Guardiola) looks for. I say this because Guardiola expressed how much he lets the forward line makes the decision on attacking.
 
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oldius said:
I don't know whether other clubs are the same but we do have a problem with it. The match day thread constantly scapegoats certain players and we have a group of fans who cannot help but pop at those who have just arrived as 'never will be good enough'; Nunes being the latest in a long, long line.
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I went in the matchday forum for the first half of a game about ten years ago, & never again. It was like a message board for mental asylum patients.

HOWEVER, I don't consider myself a scapegoater, but I never rated Nunez at Sporting, nor at Wolves.

He's a decent player who possesses pace, power & a few flicks & tricks, but he's never shown any consistent elite level ability imo.

I honestly hope he proves me wrong & that he wasn't a panic buy because we missed out on Paqueta.

I just wanted to point out that not all detractors are serial boo-boys or scapegoaters. )(
 
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ancoats said:
For me last night Phil Foden became a man from the boy
He took the bull by the horns in the 2nd half and was unstoppable and the driving force that won us the game.

it looked like Pep said at halftime, You are the free man and Pep just let him play like it was playing on the streets,
Foden has to be given that every week, the freedom to play and hurt teams instead of just sitting on the left wing
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Yea Pep switched Phil and Alvarez it improve both of them !
 
Bill Walker said:
That's exactly what you're doing.
All our senior players are top drawer, good lads who work hard in training otherwise Pep wouldn't entertain them.
Pep selects Doku and Jack because he likes what they do.
Support them all not just your favourites.
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Ok Bill.
 
Stiff Little Wingers said:
I think these knee jerk reactions are daft. Nunes is not woeful. There is definitely a player in there which is not just me opinion but Pep's. Give the lad a chance
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The thing is about Nunes - he's great when he's driving forward and creating options but it takes time to cement a solid place in a team . Bernardo , Rodri are good examples of that . Plenty of criticism of those two in their first season but when they grew into their roles that Pep moulded for them then they became undroppable. In time it's hoped that Nunes can develop a little more aggression or less timidity in keeping the ball in tight situations. Confidence is a big factor in all of this. He has the skill set no doubt it .
 
cleavers said:
Generally I like it, and that one was very good, but Everton had pretty much given up the hard press by then.

We tried that a couple of times just before half time, when Everton were very sharp in their press, and we lost it twice, one resulted in their goal, as it was too tight on Rodri and he slipped.

It's not always the right option, it might be the preferred one, but sometimes we need to be more pragmatic.
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They won’t be pragmatic very often. Whilst, especially with hindsight, there are times when a big boot up the field would be the best option, it’s not how we play and choosing the right time to divert from plan is probably harder in the moment than we might think in many cases.
 
Bigga said:
It also has helped pile the pressure on and the goal tally drop in rate. We are in the middle of that fact.

There are pluses and minuses at play here.
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We are missing two of the main ingredients for the goals in Kev and Haaland.
 
TinFoilHat said:
We've scored 20 goals in the last 9 games. Scoring isn't our problem.
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I wasn’t inferring it was, I was giving Bigga an explanation as to why our tally may be slightly down on previous seasons. He seems to think it’s because of Grealish playing and Doku not.
 
Bigga said:
I hope you don't include me in your last sentence.

I was simply offering the differences in the impetus of 'controlled' control and controlled chaos and how it affects our attack. You could even argue how often we score vs chances made via Doku vs Grealish.

I'd love to see those stats somewhere.
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Big chances created is 4 v 3 for Doku over Grealish according to the premier league stats - but i get what you mean in terms of him creating space for others to create by creating chaos.

I think grealish, particularly over the last 6 games, has got goals, and created big chances - he clearly wasn't 100% at the beginning of the year.

He doesn't square his defender up as much as doku, for sure, and when doku runs at people it definitely creates more chaos and is fun to watch, but the idea that grealish slows everything down isn't true either. Look at the two first half chances yesterday: (7 seconds to 32 seconds)



First one is grealish running at defenders, playing a perfect ball forward for alvarez, the 2nd one is grealish running at defenders and getting a shot away (admittedly a toe poke!)

You factor in the defensive side of the game as he showed last night, the diligence to do that side of the ball as well, and that's why I prefer him right now.
 
Phil1 said:
We are missing two of the main ingredients for the goals in Kev and Haaland.
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Whilst it's true, I don't think it's major factor.

What we're mainly missing is the direct threat to goals or attempts at goal which is why Doku is quite a loss at the minute.

I can see the trifecta of de Bruyne, Doku and Haaland all playing being a major turning point for the team.
 
cleavers said:
Nothing similar for me in the two, I assume you mean in the cup final ?

Jack jumped for header, wasn't even looking at the ball, it flicked his hand, I think 1 or 2 rags appealed half heartedly, game went on, and it was only awarded about 2 minutes later, after every angle was scrutinised by var to find one that helped united.

Last night the defender dived in front of a shot that may (or may not) have been goal bound to block, inherant risk there of it hitting his arm or hand, it hit his hand first, then his head (had it been the other way round, I suspect var would have ruled it out). Referee didn't give it, doubt he saw it, but every nearby City player appealed vociferously, and the linesman indicated he had seen it, the referee checked, clear penalty under these rules, and it seems var confirmed it, I presume they checked what it hit first, as I doubt the linesman could see that.
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Too much fuss has been made over last night’s penalty award. The defender blocked a shot with his arm, which was pretty much above his head. So hard not to give it.

Handball is always going to be a problem because I’m sure that more often than not it is given for offences that were not deliberate. However, you have to penalise instances that if you didn’t, players could start taking advantage of. Last night‘s would be one of those, IMO. I’m sure I’d feel differently about that one if I was a Neverton supporter.

Fundamentally, if you block a shot with your arm, and the arm is not glued to the body i.e. there’s daylight (or floodlight) between the arm and body, you should expect to be penalised.

The Grealish one in the Cup Final was quite different and was an appalling decision.
 
OB1 said:
They won’t be pragmatic very often. Whilst, especially with hindsight, there are times when a big boot up the field would be the best option, it’s not how we play and choosing the right time to divert from plan is probably harder in the moment than we might think in many cases.
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No I realise that, as I say I normally like it, but it was quite obvious last night that it was getting too tight in the latter part of the first half, as Everton were putting everything into it, and basically overloaded us, hence the Rodri slip/mistake.

The one highlighted in the video also looks very tight, but they weren't pressing as hard by then, it's very hard to keep that up for long, as you have to do a lot of running while we just move the ball.
 
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Phil1 said:
I wasn’t inferring it was, I was giving Bigga an explanation as to why our tally may be slightly down on previous seasons. He seems to think it’s because of Grealish playing and Doku not.
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We've scored much more when Doku's been playing than when Grealish has.

Have the goals not been harder to come by since Grealish's 'control' style has re-entered our game?
 
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