Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station

[Xiphos]

I keep asking myself why did he choose Monday with loads of young girls, when there is a much bigger event in Manchester on Sunday. Maybe they are just totally indiscriminate and do it when they build up enough courage ?

Young innocent girls appeal to their warped view of the world, they were trying to prove a point

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

This was a horrible act of violence, which I'm sure no single religion would advocate.

I personally have been impacted by this as my wife and 12 year old daughter were there, they were in the line to walk out the exit near to the where the bomb went off and that would have been their route out. We are extremely thankful that they got home safely but the impact this has had on our family is there. My daughter has barely spoken or eaten for 2 days, my wife is in constant tears. This will take time for us to heal from this and we have to keep reminding ourselves how lucky we have been. The images and sounds which have been imprinted on both will remain with them for a long time.

We are truly heartbroken by the experience but totally fail to comprehend what the people who have lost loved ones are currently feeling.

The question is always Why? these fuckers have death too easy. Don't even think these are religious fanatics. I have Muslim friends and they all condemn the behaviour of these.

I just hope the Governments of the world could do something different, but nobody knows what.

All I can say is - I love my family to bits but I also take them for granted. These last few days has reinforced my feelings and the extra hug or kiss doesn't hurt nobody.

Glad they are as okay as can be mate.

 

[geoff clipp]

Some people will be reading this post and trying to come up with an arguement against it, starting to get annoyed when reading some of the shit on this thread. You're right, they should be locked up without an release date.

I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

We've got an almost ridiculous amount of investment in surveillance and intelligence gathering to the point whereby we're treading the bounds of a Police state already. What more do you want? And why do people presume that our massive security services aren't already doing things every single day?

I've got a mate who I grew up with - think we've spoke about where I grew up and you know it. Nice, normal area with nice, normal people - nothing remarkable either way. Anyway, this mate of mine has gone full on religion after a brush with gangs and is now talking about end of the world apocalypse type religious stuff (and this is all true by the way). He's preaching that gay people should be hated, that demons exist and possess people and only people who believe in Allah should be spared. He hates Christians and says they're evil people who need to be exterminated. In fact the mosque he visits regularly preaches this and he's only just returned from preaching in an African country currently ran by religious extremists with a large ISIS following.

Should I report him?

Now swap in Islam for Christian and mosques for churches. Still report him? If not, why not and if so why?

Of course you should report him, and would ask why anyone would haven't done so already?

I'm not sure what you're driving at, as regardless of faith, those with such views should be shopped.

I know you're a guy for statistics, so I would simply point to the belief that I'm not aware of people purporting to represent other faiths who are pulling on suicide vests and don't discriminate between who they then maim and kill?

 

[mat]

I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.

Post of the thread.

 

[Xiphos]

That "crap" poetry said something to me. It said this is Manchester, we are Manchester, we are here today in our thousands despite your attempt to dominate our minds and our lives. You want us on our knees, wailing and unable to function cowering in our own homes and thrashing out at anyone who looks, smells and talks the way you do. Well, we are here so fuck you and all who think like you.

Haha, carry on happy clapping, have you got a photo of the Eiffel Tower lit up like the union flag on your phone that you show everyone around the water cooler? that will frighten the life out of the jihadis

 

[Manchester_lalala]

I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.

Yeah, well balanced post. More has to be done with individuals making trips to certain countries though, especially if they're known to our government.

 

[Ric]

I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.

Well said.

 

[Damocles]

I think the outfit illustrates precisely my point; it's a while back that we were doing this sort of stuff. The guy who quoted me is surely not suggesting ISIS are seeking revenge for acts committed nearly 1,000 years ago?

Sorry, I'm a fan of a strategy game called "Crusader Kings 2" and one of the memes coming out of that is a Deus Vult meme that I enjoy posting and always brightens my day. I meant no serious point by it.

But in terms of ISIS, yeah he's pretty close. Really whacking the ISIS belief system on the head is difficult because ISIS doesn't really exist as we think of it. There's hundreds of small terror groups across different regions and different countries that have flocked under the ISIS flag. It's better described as an idea like Communism - although there's a ground zero and a small force behind it, the idea that everybody who flew the hammer and sickle was all affiliated, shared the exact same beliefs or had a decent Command and Control structure is somewhat far fetched. With ISIS it's absolutely ludicrous.

However, what can be said is that they're an offshoot of Salafist Jihadism which is an offshoot Salafism which is a sort of offshoot of Wahhabism which is an offshoot of Conservative Sunni which is an offshoot of Sunni which is a sect of Islam.

They belief that Islam was in its most perfect form when it was first conceived and that everything that has happened to reform it since then has been done due to corruption by the infidels. So yes, the Crusades does play a big part in that as do many other events. This is also why they smash up historical sites - they think that they stand as monuments to the corruption of the purest form.

Their goal is to create a war between themselves and a coalition of more than 80 countries. That number is important, 79 is not enough. They then will take over, in order, Dabiq (a northern Syrian town), Damascus, then Jerusalem then Rome. This will then lead the countries to fight against them in a battle that they will lose but during the loss they will set off a chain of events that will bring about the end of the world.

This is why they suicide bomb. Their goal is to create anger towards Muslims who they hope will then join them, and to encourage the countries to start bombing them to get that coalition moving.

This is also why I'm pretty irritated by people playing directly into their hands on this thread and elsewhere.

 

[mekonmcfc]

Young innocent girls appeal to their warped view of the world, they were trying to prove a point

yes didnt think of that, which is obvious with everything going on at the moment