Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station

geoff clipp said:
I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.
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Well said and thanks for that.
 
geoff clipp said:
I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.
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People want a simple solution to one of the most complex problems in the world today. I personally don't think there ever will be a solution to this and shit like this will carry on for decades.
 
geoff clipp said:
I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.
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Is there scope from tightening of the laws though? In the 1990's it was illegal to make child porn, but not to own it or to look at it. But we changed that, so that not only is it illegal to even look at it, it's also (rightly!) completely socially unacceptable to do so. We've changed the rules and everyone knows the rules. There's no excuses and people caught are rightly punished.

I am no expert on this, so I don't know what laws already exist, but I raise the question if the laws covering extremism and terrorism can be tightened similarly. It seems often the terrorists are known to the security services. How are they known to them? Maybe some of the acts that caused the police to know of them, could in themselves be made illegal? So viewing online material promoting terrorist activity for example? We are able to lock people up for just looking at indecent images of children, so surely it's not a step too far to also lock up people reading about how to make bombs?

I suppose we might debate whether more draconian measures would help overall. I don't know, but from what I can gather, we might have been able to lock up the bloke who committed this terrible crime; and indeed the guy on London Bridge too. For me, that would be a good start.
 
Xiphos said:
Haha, carry on happy clapping, have you got a photo of the Eiffel Tower lit up like the union flag on your phone that you show everyone around the water cooler? that will frighten the life out of the jihadis
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Your losing it mate.
 
crystal_mais said:
This was a horrible act of violence, which I'm sure no single religion would advocate.

I personally have been impacted by this as my wife and 12 year old daughter were there, they were in the line to walk out the exit near to the where the bomb went off and that would have been their route out. We are extremely thankful that they got home safely but the impact this has had on our family is there. My daughter has barely spoken or eaten for 2 days, my wife is in constant tears. This will take time for us to heal from this and we have to keep reminding ourselves how lucky we have been. The images and sounds which have been imprinted on both will remain with them for a long time.

We are truly heartbroken by the experience but totally fail to comprehend what the people who have lost loved ones are currently feeling.

The question is always Why? these fuckers have death too easy. Don't even think these are religious fanatics. I have Muslim friends and they all condemn the behaviour of these.

I just hope the Governments of the world could do something different, but nobody knows what.

All I can say is - I love my family to bits but I also take them for granted. These last few days has reinforced my feelings and the extra hug or kiss doesn't hurt nobody.
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I'm glad they are safe, mate.

There is someone at my little girl's school, 11, I think, she has a broken leg.

Not sure if in the rush to get out or the actual explosion.

Best wishes.
 
Damocles said:
239.jpg
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You are of course aware of how ridiculous this post is given that Jerusalem was taken by force in the Muslim conquests some 400 years earlier!

Now if only i could find a suitable picture.
 
geoff clipp said:
I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.
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very good post
 
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