GaudinoMotors
Well-Known Member
I wasn't going
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Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station
- Thread starter MCFC1993
- Start date
mancityvstoke
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2009
- Messages
- 22,251
- Location
- Vintage terraced Kippax
- Team supported
- The only football team to come from Manchester
Its just up from The Old Garratt
I think the forum needs a "post Manchester attack discussion" thread now, to be honest.
Although i'd hate to be the one having to moderate it...
This is a good idea actually. @Ric?
Being known by intelligence services isn't the same as being suspected of, or doing anything wrong. A lot of these type of investigations involve links between "known" people and others and trying to work out whether or not they are meaningful or relevant.
If we start rounding up people known to intelligence services we're going to depriving the liberties of plenty of people just as innocent as anyone else, and that will only increase the terrorist threat imo.
If we start rounding up people known to intelligence services we're going to depriving the liberties of plenty of people just as innocent as anyone else, and that will only increase the terrorist threat imo.
To be honest, Twitter and social media is full of uneducated and immature attention seeking, with views of political solutions and xenophobia reasoning that they think would have stopped this happening.
I'd rather read stories of the proud Mancunians, the heroes on our streets and the pride and love shown for our great City.
We don't know all the facts, we may never know. But what we do know, even in the feelings of fear and hate we all feel, we have the strength not to give into it, but to show love and compassion, strength and unity to those that need it the most in this dark time.
I don't want to read hearsay, historical references to justify an opinion, or hatred to a group of people, who are as innocent, as a whole, as we are.
so in this time, and in respect, i will be ignoring posts and people making posts, i don't want to read.
I'd rather read stories of the proud Mancunians, the heroes on our streets and the pride and love shown for our great City.
We don't know all the facts, we may never know. But what we do know, even in the feelings of fear and hate we all feel, we have the strength not to give into it, but to show love and compassion, strength and unity to those that need it the most in this dark time.
I don't want to read hearsay, historical references to justify an opinion, or hatred to a group of people, who are as innocent, as a whole, as we are.
so in this time, and in respect, i will be ignoring posts and people making posts, i don't want to read.
BBC 5Live have just been evacuated on air and are playing a continuity broadcast.
Someone accidentally set off the fire alarm
foetus
Well-Known Member
I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.
"course of action that actually works". What action is this? Allowing extremists who obviously support isis to walk the streets? No, tighten the laws and remove them from society. Police shouldn't need a library full of evidence to lock a piece of scum up.I think we really do need to move away from the idea that you're a massive lefty or part of the PC brigade if you don't subscribe to the idea that anyone being under suspicion of being an ISIS sympathiser should be locked up indefinitely. It's more a case of wanting a course of action that actually works. I really couldn't care less what happens to any individual that supports the mass slaughter of innocent people and I really wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of somebody that supports ISIS or their viewpoint being locked up in a prison for the rest of their lives. The problem I have is that I don't think it would work and it would actually lead to further radicalisation of more people, something I think we all agree should be avoided. I think that in the vast majority of cases it would be nigh on impossible to identify who an actual supporter of ISIS is and innocent people would end up in prison. Now some people think a few innocents being locked up is an acceptable level of collateral damage if it prevents further atrocities (I agree, it probably would be the lesser of two evils). The problem is if you think locking up innocent people plays into the hands of terrorists and would lead to further radicalisation, then it doesn't make you a bleeding heart liberal to be against what he's suggesting, it's just common sense.
Long term solutions to stop radicalisation are all well and good...but what about short term? Do we just accept that this is a part of life now and hope it doesn't directly affect us or our close ones? Pretty bleak outlook...
cucumberman
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 4 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 5,087
And I'm sure if the mods agree they will remove both the original picture and my response.
Yes it's up to the mods to decide they so far have done quite good with pulling out posts that are moving a different tangent. Maybe move it to the next thread. I just don't think this thread should lose its core discussion about what's happening in Manchester.
As a parent of an 8 year old, I am anxious of how this is developing and of how we are dealing with it in the future. I am deeply saddened that children have become casualties of warped understanding, and angered because Manchester is an enclave of very good and caring people and there are a few individuals who seek to destroy it and impose doctrines that were not of these parts in the first place.
EddieR
Well-Known Member
That "crap" poetry said something to me. It said this is Manchester, we are Manchester, we are here today in our thousands despite your attempt to dominate our minds and our lives. You want us on our knees, wailing and unable to function cowering in our own homes and thrashing out at anyone who looks, smells and talks the way you do. Well, we are here so fuck you and all who think like you.
Exactly right Blue. Not only did it show Manchester defiant, it also illustrated the fact that there would be no jingoistic tub-thumping and vile aggression shown towards the perpetrators of these acts of brutality. If ever a community, a City, could demonstrate mass stoicism and the ability to turn the other cheek, this was it.
yeah whatever !!
Well-Known Member
Well I'm sure the majority of level headed non Muslims realise this and Im sure the Majority of level headed Muslims understand this also.Sorry, I'm a fan of a strategy game called "Crusader Kings 2" and one of the memes coming out of that is a Deus Vult meme that I enjoy posting and always brightens my day. I meant no serious point by it.
But in terms of ISIS, yeah he's pretty close. Really whacking the ISIS belief system on the head is difficult because ISIS doesn't really exist as we think of it. There's hundreds of small terror groups across different regions and different countries that have flocked under the ISIS flag. It's better described as an idea like Communism - although there's a ground zero and a small force behind it, the idea that everybody who flew the hammer and sickle was all affiliated, shared the exact same beliefs or had a decent Command and Control structure is somewhat far fetched. With ISIS it's absolutely ludicrous.
However, what can be said is that they're an offshoot of Salafist Jihadism which is an offshoot Salafism which is a sort of offshoot of Wahhabism which is an offshoot of Conservative Sunni which is an offshoot of Sunni which is a sect of Islam.
They belief that Islam was in its most perfect form when it was first conceived and that everything that has happened to reform it since then has been done due to corruption by the infidels. So yes, the Crusades does play a big part in that as do many other events. This is also why they smash up historical sites - they think that they stand as monuments to the corruption of the purest form.
Their goal is to create a war between themselves and a coalition of more than 80 countries. That number is important, 79 is not enough. They then will take over, in order, Dabiq (a northern Syrian town), Damascus, then Jerusalem then Rome. This will then lead the countries to fight against them in a battle that they will lose but during the loss they will set off a chain of events that will bring about the end of the world.
This is why they suicide bomb. Their goal is to create anger towards Muslims who they hope will then join them, and to encourage the countries to start bombing them to get that coalition moving.
This is also why I'm pretty irritated by people playing directly into their hands on this thread and elsewhere.
There will always be haters with agendas. lets hope that unity and understanding remains firm. we have all seen the way Muslims were treated by ISIS in Mosil.. Men forced to grow beards, no cigarettes, no say in anything beheadings and the like..
pretty bleak tbh.