Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station

[moomba]

The poem is one of the most inspiration things I've heard recently, and beautifully delivered the other night. It might not have people quaking in their boots but that was never the intention.

 

[yeah whatever !!]

I think the issue is that stuff like this and vigils etc are nowadays seen as action, when it clearly accomplishes nothing other than to make ones self feel better.(in this particular case, that's probably not a bad thing). But folk have a tendency to use those things as a way of moving on, and in some ways folk take offense to the idea of moving on in this manner while the west is effectively being attacked.

I prefer to see it as a way of showing support for those who lost loved ones..

 

[Peggy's a blue]

What I am finding vile and disgusting, is people calling people xenophobic and jingoistic, for having the effrontery to express little more than anger and dismay, that our youth and children are being murdered in our own city.
This is the kind of hand wringing liberalism, that has got us where we are today.

 

[geoff clipp]

i know there isn't an easy answer, as you say, but surely people with known terrorist links should be locked up ? none one wants innocent people locked up and you have to have the evidence, but surely the scumbag who carried out this attack should have been in jail or under police surveillance. i can't see anyone muslim or not being outraged by that.

If it were that simple then maybe i could get behind it but i think it would be very very difficult to define who should and shouldn't be locked up. It's very sketchy ground locking people up based on their associations and some views they might have rather than crimes they've actually committed. It might well turn out it was clear cut enough with this guy that he shouldn't have been on the loose, but i think there are many others who are capable of doing this that it would be very hard to pin down.

 

[rugbyblue]

But let me ask you this: Since we in the west rarely, if ever these days, carry out acts of terrorism in the name of Christianity, we've clearly grown out of and away from the literal interpretations in the Bible. It seems pretty logical to me (as a 100% devout atheist) that this should have come to pass because with every advance in technology and our understanding of the earth and indeed the universe, it becomes more compellingly clear that the ancient writings in the Bible are a load of old cobblers. Mumbo jumbo from an ancient time that serves no purpose in a modern scientific era. We've been told porkies for centuries, and been gullible enough to believe it. But now, believing that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days, is the view only of loonies few and far between. Thankfully also, loonies not motivated to use violence to further their views.

If you take a look at Evengelicals in America, you'll find similar twisted views on 'their religion' as those who try and twist the interpretation of the Quran to serve their own ideals.

The high amount of hate crimes and attacks on 'people who are different' comes from a similar place (Racism, homophobia, otherism etc. )

 

[blueinsa]

What I am finding vile and disgusting, is people calling people xenophobic and jingoistic, for having the effrontery to express little more than anger and dismay, that our youth and children are being murdered in our own city.

Care to link us to examples?

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

Extremism is the equivalent of cancer. As with cancer, you just want it gone, to be cut out.

The emotional and completely understandable views of a solution to the problem on here echo that. They were my thoughts when I saw the picture of the 8 year old girl who looks a lot like my 9 year old girl. I well up every time I see her face. I want the bastards dead on our terms. I want them wiped off the face of the earth. I want the cancer removed now.

The problem with just bluntly 'cutting it out' though, is the quick fixes we'd like to institute may well eradicate most of the original cancer, but we won't get it all and it will inevitably spread because of it.

The knee jerk solutions on here, if played out, probably lead to far bigger problems, reprisals and atrocities. They lead to the very war and breakdown in society as we know it ISIS are trying to create.

We'd like to remove every perceived threat from the street. Where does that stop? Who makes the call. Who gets to decide at what point somebody is a danger rather than just an arse. At what point do we decide somebody said something extreme rather than just joking. At what point do we judge our intelligence personnel qualified to understand the linguistic and cultural nuances that we generally don't understand. Do we explicitly trust 'intelligence'. How are they vetted to ensure they don't have their own prejudices. Do we trust a Catholic to make the call on which Muslim we take out...or do we not want to know? At what age can we take them out. Most religions target the young. They're indoctrinated (brainwashed) by the time they're 7, if not radicalized. Are they fair game after 7? Too soon...how about teenager? Let's assume our intelligence is over staffed and operating like a machine. perfect and assume that almost everyone that gets taken out had it coming (even the optimists can't hope for 100% certainty). All however many thousand of them there are. Better take their friends and family out too though, as they'll be unhappy, especially if they're the innocent few. What about their friends and family.

Play it out...play it out in your head and tell me when you get to a conclusion that stops what's just happened happening again, and to the point everything's rosy and we don't have any more atrocities.

We want revenge, and we want it now, and we don't want it to happen again. Sorry, but that ship sailed a long time ago. The cancer is in us, and we can't just take it out.

There's not a quick fix. It's not even a fix for our lifetime, and it might never get truly fixed, but unless you want this world to descend into a race/religious war, along who knows what lines, a long haul is in store.

I hate them and everything they stand for. And fu#k I wish I knew how to fix it, but nobody truly does. Killing the patient isn't the solution though. Open to suggestions though.

 

[Monkfish]

"course of action that actually works". What action is this? Allowing extremists who obviously support isis to walk the streets? No, tighten the laws and remove them from society. Police shouldn't need a library full of evidence to lock a piece of scum up.

Long term solutions to stop radicalisation are all well and good...but what about short term? Do we just accept that this is a part of life now and hope it doesn't directly affect us or our close ones? Pretty bleak outlook...

a bleak outlook is wanting to live in a country where people can be locked away without sufficient evidence of guilt, sounds like you want the UK to become more like the Middle East as much as any radical muslims

 

[Tugay One Cup]

I think the issue is that stuff like this and vigils etc are nowadays seen as action, when it clearly accomplishes nothing other than to make ones self feel better.(in this particular case, that's probably not a bad thing). But folk have a tendency to use those things as a way of moving on, and in some ways folk take offense to the idea of moving on in this manner while the west is effectively being attacked.

I get that but honestly what are those folks contributing to the issue?

Instead of throwing out childish insults at those using the only skills they have to help others and demanding specific solutions to problems they are utterly ill equipped to solve, why can't the two things be treated seperately?

As far as I'm aware, Tony Walsh doesn't have any responsibility with regards to ending terrorism and yesterday he was just doing what he could to help. He (I'm guessing he is the individual who has been referred to) doesn't deserve criticism in any way shape or form and such anger couldn't be more misplaced.

 

[CTID1988]

The bombers father speaking from Libya has said that his son is innocent...
No mate, hes a murdering ****.