FA Watch

Mark Tipton said:
I've just received the standard Stage 1 reply from the FA which avoids answering the points made in time honoured fashion.

I'll send a copy to Henry Winter and will write again to the FA perhaps later today. We should then get the standard Stage 2 'I say old chap, how dare you have the temerity to contact me again' letter in a weeks time, if past experience is anything to go by.

The FA's message was:

Dear Mark

Thank you for contacting The Football Association.

FIFA guidelines aimed at avoiding the “re-refereeing” of matches generally prevent The FA from taking disciplinary action on incidents which are seen and dealt with at the time by the match officials (this includes taking no action). As a general rule, if the match officials see an incident and have jurisdiction to take action, The FA cannot act retrospectively.

The Football Association receives frequent correspondence on individual refereeing decisions across all levels of football as well as on the performance of referees in general. Every supporter will have an opinion on the game’s major talking points and we’re always interested to hear them.

There is a system in place for monitoring the performance of referees and referee's assistants. This involves referees assessors and reports from club managers. All assessors come from a footballing background and the majority are fully qualified referees themselves. The performances of referees over a season are then taken into consideration when the leagues appoint their referees for the following season.

The Select Group officiates in the Premier League and is the responsibility of Keith Hackett, General Manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). Premier League refereeing enquiries should be addressed to Keith Hackett, The Premier League, 30 Gloucester Place, London W1U 8PL or via info@premierleague.com <mailto:info@premierleague.com>

We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your suggestions will form part of this feedback process.

Kind regards


The Football Association


Wasn't SWP given a retrospective 3 match ban last year because the ref didn't see it? But then again Ade was seen, the ref did nothing and a 3 match retospective ban was given. No wonder you cannot beat them in an argument.
 
I've just sent the following to the FA in response to their earlier standard non-response letter.

'Thank you for your response to my earlier query re the Jonny Evans incident last Sunday.

I am of course aware of the FIFA guidelines which generally prevent the FA from taking disciplinary action after the event on incidents which are seen and dealt with at the time by match officials. I say generally because there are always exceptions to the rule.

If one considers the 2009 incidents of Adebayor, Huth and Wright-Phillips, the referee in each instance either did not see the incident at all (Huth) or despite facing the incident and being only a matter of feet away did not see the incident directly, as he could not see what happened from the angle he was facing.

Following an inquest in each of the three incidents in the media and in particular on Match of The Day, when Messrs Lineker, Hansen and Shearer deemed there to be a case to answer, the FA asked the referee to review the matter and consider whether he would have taken action had he seen the incident in full. Charges of violent conduct followed in all cases.

The question at the heart of this matter, as I invited you to consider, is whether Mr Atkinson saw the incident in full, or whether he made a highly debateable call based on what he thought he saw.

Your answer did not directly address this central point, so before I contact Mr Hackett as suggested could you please confirm Mr Atkinson’s match report confirms he did fully see the incident in question and that he felt there was no need for the matter to be reconsidered.

As said to you before, the aims of ‘FA Watch’, as stated on our website at <a class="postlink" href="http://www.fawatch.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.fawatch.org</a>, are to ensure the laws of the game are applied in a fair, objective and manner.

This is of course something you should be doing, and the lack of faith in your organisation in this regard was one of the principle reasons for setting up ‘FA Watch’.

One of the purposes of this organisation therefore, which has attracted recent media interest from the Daily Telegraph and the BBC, is to monitor the FA’s performance of its disciplinary function and this we will continue to do.

Officials of ‘FA Watch’ are of course happy to meet with you to discuss matters of mutual interest and this invitation remains open-ended'.


I think we should get the 'how dare you contact me again' stage 2 response from them early next week.

Copies of the e-mail to the FA will be sent to the usual media outlets as a matter of course.

And if you're interested in what we're trying to do then you can always pop in to <a class="postlink" href="http://www.fawatch.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.fawatch.org</a> when you have a few moments spare.

Mark
 
The excellent Martin Samuel gives a mention to the "fa watch" <a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1228075/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Lord-help-man-leading-Englands-World-Cup-2018-bid.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/articl ... 8-bid.html</a>
 
Not a particular nice or informed mention either.

Over to you Mark, I think this one merits a response.
 
Thanks for the heads up - I've just responded under the heading 'FA Watch rebuttal of your ill-informed article in today's Daily Mail‏' with:

Martin,

Whilst some might argue that 'all publicity is good publicity' I can't let today's comment about FA Watch of 'all they seem to encompass is a load of whinging Manchester City fans, trying to get Manchester United players in trouble' pass without a response.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story Martin. You couldn't be further away from the truth - feel free to log on to our site at <a class="postlink" href="http://www.fawatch.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.fawatch.org</a> if you want to learn some more about us.

Regards.

Mark
 
Stage 2 letter now received from the FA, much as expected. I'll drop them a line perhaps tomorrow and in the meantime we'll keep plugging away - these responses will over time mount up and we will hopefully build up a dossier that can be used to good effect in the future.


Dear Mark

Thank you for your email.

In any instance, The FA considers whether a matter has been dealt with by the match officials at the time. If not then The FA will ask the referee whether he saw the relevant incident (and decided to take no action) or did not see it. If he saw the incident then The FA can only take action in the most exceptional cases, for instance where the offence would have warranted an additional charge beyond the sanction imposed for a red card. For example, the incident involving Ben Thatcher and Pedro Mendes.

Where referees have seen an incident and dealt with it at the time then The FA will not re-referee the match by reviewing whether the decision was appropriate. In the case of Jonny Evans, the referee dealt with the incident at the time as he saw fit. In the other instances you refer to, the match referee in each case confirmed that they had not seen the incident and therefore The FA had jurisdiction to consider disciplinary action.

Kind regards


Tracey Bates | Customer Relations Assistant
Communications
The FA Group
Wembley Stadium I Wembley | London | HA9 0WS
Postal address: Wembley Stadium, PO Box 1966, London SW1P 9EQ
T +44 (0) 844 980 8200 # 4707
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.TheFA.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.TheFA.com</a>
 
Mark Tipton said:
Stage 2 letter now received from the FA, much as expected. I'll drop them a line perhaps tomorrow and in the meantime we'll keep plugging away - these responses will over time mount up and we will hopefully build up a dossier that can be used to good effect in the future.


Dear Mark

Thank you for your email.

In any instance, The FA considers whether a matter has been dealt with by the match officials at the time. If not then The FA will ask the referee whether he saw the relevant incident (and decided to take no action) or did not see it. If he saw the incident then The FA can only take action in the most exceptional cases, for instance where the offence would have warranted an additional charge beyond the sanction imposed for a red card. For example, the incident involving Ben Thatcher and Pedro Mendes.

Where referees have seen an incident and dealt with it at the time then The FA will not re-referee the match by reviewing whether the decision was appropriate. In the case of Jonny Evans, the referee dealt with the incident at the time as he saw fit. In the other instances you refer to, the match referee in each case confirmed that they had not seen the incident and therefore The FA had jurisdiction to consider disciplinary action.

Kind regards


Tracey Bates | Customer Relations Assistant
Communications
The FA Group
Wembley Stadium I Wembley | London | HA9 0WS
Postal address: Wembley Stadium, PO Box 1966, London SW1P 9EQ
T +44 (0) 844 980 8200 # 4707
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.TheFA.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.TheFA.com</a>

How convenient - a set of rules that helps them decide whatever they feel like...
 
City Raider said:
Mark Tipton said:
Stage 2 letter now received from the FA, much as expected. I'll drop them a line perhaps tomorrow and in the meantime we'll keep plugging away - these responses will over time mount up and we will hopefully build up a dossier that can be used to good effect in the future.


Dear Mark

Thank you for your email.

In any instance, The FA considers whether a matter has been dealt with by the match officials at the time. If not then The FA will ask the referee whether he saw the relevant incident (and decided to take no action) or did not see it. If he saw the incident then The FA can only take action in the most exceptional cases, for instance where the offence would have warranted an additional charge beyond the sanction imposed for a red card. For example, the incident involving Ben Thatcher and Pedro Mendes.

Where referees have seen an incident and dealt with it at the time then The FA will not re-referee the match by reviewing whether the decision was appropriate. In the case of Jonny Evans, the referee dealt with the incident at the time as he saw fit. In the other instances you refer to, the match referee in each case confirmed that they had not seen the incident and therefore The FA had jurisdiction to consider disciplinary action.

Kind regards


Tracey Bates | Customer Relations Assistant
Communications
The FA Group
Wembley Stadium I Wembley | London | HA9 0WS
Postal address: Wembley Stadium, PO Box 1966, London SW1P 9EQ
T +44 (0) 844 980 8200 # 4707
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.TheFA.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.TheFA.com</a>

How convenient - a set of rules that helps them decide whatever they feel like...

What they said isn't new in the slightest - everything hinged on whether Atkinson saw the incident, and since he got it so ridiculously wrong it was either he didn't see the incident properly (which we gave them every chance to consider) in which case the FA could then look at it or te ref really does need to pop down to Specsavers.

It does make you wonder what the outcome might have been if say Clarke Carlisle had done something similar to Evans at say any one of the Big 4 grounds. I can't help feeling that someone would have whispered a little something in the ref's ear and hey, the next thing you know he says he was partially unsighted and if he'd have seen it from a different angle he would have called it differently.

The FA would then hit Carlisle with a violent conduct charge and a three match ban would follow.

Not such an outrageous suggestion is it?
 

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