Fairness

[Johnsonontheleft]

If people were only allowed to have kids if they can afford them, I suspect most of us wouldn't be here.

No man is an island and the whole I'm alright Jack, so fuck you lot at the back, "thinking" that passes itself off as Libertarian ideology is doomed to failure. It's basically nothing more than self-righteousness, selfishness and greed masquerading as an expression of personal freedom.
Of course, there are people taking advantage of the welfare state but to punish those who are struggling but genuinely trying to make a better life for themselves and their families because of them is an utterly bizarre take on the concept of fairness.

When you say punish what do you mean by that? Because you could argue that punishment was actually taking money off people that is rightfully theirs. Reducing the amount of money poorer families receive from richer families via the government would not be regarded as punishment in my eyes, but maybe you're not suggesting that?

 

[EalingBlue2]

If people were only allowed to have kids if they can afford them, I suspect most of us wouldn't be here.

No man is an island and the whole I'm alright Jack, so fuck you lot at the back, "thinking" that passes itself off as Libertarian ideology is doomed to failure. It's basically nothing more than self-righteousness, selfishness and greed masquerading as an expression of personal freedom.
Of course, there are people taking advantage of the welfare state but to punish those who are struggling but genuinely trying to make a better life for themselves and their families because of them is an utterly bizarre take on the concept of fairness.

When you say punish what do you mean by that? Because you could argue that punishment was actually taking money off people that is rightfully theirs. Reducing the amount of money poorer families receive from richer families via the government would not be regarded as punishment in my eyes, but maybe you're not suggesting that?

By punish he means that be it by geography, ability, disability, demography or whatever it may be if you take away money from people who genuinely need help and push them further beneath he breadline you are deliberately inflicting misery on those who don't deserve it.

I have a number of friends and some distant family who have been on benefits and I cannot think of anything further from the Cellar stereotype of benefits people. All desperately were looking for jobs, they didn't have sky, new trainers or any of that crap and actually managed through exceptionally prudent management of very small funds. I suspect that a few examples of crooks on benefit exploiting loop holes and probably with money from other means are clouding everyone's thoughys.

Also as many people may be poor because of decisions certain governments make that effect certain geographies negatively surely if society is the cause of the issues , society has a part in remediating then.

I also think the mentality of the social climbing right fails to actually understand how most high tax payers think. I spend a lot of time with people who pay a lot of tax and very few actually ever bemoan any transfer of wealth to the poor. Corporate tax rates, red tape, money wasted on othe projects, lack of reform, state of health and education etc are far more important to them and to the economy than an attack on benefits.

 

[EalingBlue2]

that as a philosophy might work with 95% inheritance tax, illegal private education so that there was some chance of society achieving some equality.

Also anyone of that philosophy would I suggest not be allowed to use roads, the police or any other infrastructure of the country

Under that policy there would be 100% inheritance tax
Kids didn't earn their parents wealth

You really hit the nail on the head there - kids are either set up for success or failure by their parents. There are some who drag themselves up from the gutter and succeed and there are some who become smack addicts and screw up their lives despite being given everything .

But kids of benefit parents who shouldn't have kids didn't make their own decision to be born and kids who get left a fortune didn't do a finger of work to deserve it. Inheritance tax strikes me as one of the fairer taxes in many ways

 

[mad4city]

If people were only allowed to have kids if they can afford them, I suspect most of us wouldn't be here.

No man is an island and the whole I'm alright Jack, so fuck you lot at the back, "thinking" that passes itself off as Libertarian ideology is doomed to failure. It's basically nothing more than self-righteousness, selfishness and greed masquerading as an expression of personal freedom.
Of course, there are people taking advantage of the welfare state but to punish those who are struggling but genuinely trying to make a better life for themselves and their families because of them is an utterly bizarre take on the concept of fairness.

When you say punish what do you mean by that? Because you could argue that punishment was actually taking money off people that is rightfully theirs. Reducing the amount of money poorer families receive from richer families via the government would not be regarded as punishment in my eyes, but maybe you're not suggesting that?

Firstly, thanks EB2. You pretty much answered this exactly (although rather more eloquently) as I would have.

Now, Johnson...
Rightfully theirs? Do you not agree with the principle that everybody must contribute what they can afford to society?

Do you not accept, the plain as the chip on your shoulder fact, that the rich benefit more from our society than the poor?

Do you not subscribe to the basic human principle of giving a hand up (rather than a hand out) to those who didn't catch the same breaks as you in this life?

Do you seriously argue that the National Debt borne by your country (and don't even get me started on that borne by mine!) isn't anything more than a notional construct fashioned by the elite to keep the poor in their place and ensure the transfer of wealth remains forever flowing in their direction?

The game is rigged. Doesn't matter how many times the wheel spins, the House always wins. You're too busy looking down your nose at Wayne and Waynetta (as featured in the latest Daily Tabloid exclusive) to notice that Wilf and Winifred (last seen on the beach at Marbella whilst their zero-hour-contracted, staff squabble for an extra few pence) are the ones who are really frittering away your tax money.
I know you identify with Wilf and Winifred on some fanciful, maybe even egotistical, level but trust me, unless that's your yacht they're enviously eyeing up, you're just another Wayne on the chopping block to those fuckers.

 

[Lucky13]

 

[Rascal]

So you think that a quote from an anti abortionist, white supremacist, tea party bible bashing nutjob is worthy of airtime on BM. He backed calls for ending the American welfare state and considered Income Tax to be unconstitutional. The man is a fucking moron.

For shame Lucky, for shame.

 

[whp.blue]

If people were only allowed to have kids if they can afford them, I suspect most of us wouldn't be here.

No man is an island and the whole I'm alright Jack, so fuck you lot at the back, "thinking" that passes itself off as Libertarian ideology is doomed to failure. It's basically nothing more than self-righteousness, selfishness and greed masquerading as an expression of personal freedom.
Of course, there are people taking advantage of the welfare state but to punish those who are struggling but genuinely trying to make a better life for themselves and their families because of them is an utterly bizarre take on the concept of fairness.

When you say punish what do you mean by that? Because you could argue that punishment was actually taking money off people that is rightfully theirs. Reducing the amount of money poorer families receive from richer families via the government would not be regarded as punishment in my eyes, but maybe you're not suggesting that?

Firstly, thanks EB2. You pretty much answered this exactly (although rather more eloquently) as I would have.

Now, Johnson...
Rightfully theirs? Do you not agree with the principle that everybody must contribute what they can afford to society?

Do you not accept, the plain as the chip on your shoulder fact, that the rich benefit more from our society than the poor?

Do you not subscribe to the basic human principle of giving a hand up (rather than a hand out) to those who didn't catch the same breaks as you in this life?

Do you seriously argue that the National Debt borne by your country (and don't even get me started on that borne by mine!) isn't anything more than a notional construct fashioned by the elite to keep the poor in their place and ensure the transfer of wealth remains forever flowing in their direction?

The game is rigged. Doesn't matter how many times the wheel spins, the House always wins. You're too busy looking down your nose at Wayne and Waynetta (as featured in the latest Daily Tabloid exclusive) to notice that Wilf and Winifred (last seen on the beach at Marbella whilst their zero-hour-contracted, staff squabble for an extra few pence) are the ones who are really frittering away your tax money.
I know you identify with Wilf and Winifred on some fanciful, maybe even egotistical, level but trust me, unless that's your yacht they're enviously eyeing up, you're just another Wayne on the chopping block to those fuckers.

That is just bollocks why would anyone try to better themselves just so they can give money to the idle tossers who are happy to spend all their life on benefits just knocking out kids

Even the communists never allowed people to do nothing and get state handouts

 

[Rascal]

Even the communists never allowed people to do nothing and get state handouts

Which Communists did this?

 

[Lucky13]

So you think that a quote from an anti abortionist, white supremacist, tea party bible bashing nutjob is worthy of airtime on BM. He backed calls for ending the American welfare state and considered Income Tax to be unconstitutional. The man is a fucking moron.

For shame Lucky, for shame.

I think that quote , on a thread about fairness is apt.

 

[Rascal]

So you think that a quote from an anti abortionist, white supremacist, tea party bible bashing nutjob is worthy of airtime on BM. He backed calls for ending the American welfare state and considered Income Tax to be unconstitutional. The man is a fucking moron.

For shame Lucky, for shame.

I think that quote , on a thread about fairness is apt.

In context the quote is from a Moron all the same.

Even the right wing yanks think he is a fucking idiot ffs