Fairness

[Mustard Dave]

This argument again?
Jesus, when will you people learn? Those on higher income are benefiting more from society. Therefore, in the spirit of fairness it is incumbent upon them to contribute more to the taxes the run that society.

My arse! I have had the same benefits from society as anybody. I'm not going to be as vulgar as to say what I earn, but I'm on pretty good money. I'm on good money because people value the advice I give them and are prepared to pay for it. I don't get any more from society as the bone-idle fucker a couple of doors down, who sits on his arse, smoking fags and watching his massive telly. I had the same comprehensive education, I get the same NHS treatment and the fire brigade won't come to me any quicker. In addition, the DWP pay this feckless oxygen thief to reproduce, so he actually gets more.

I do not object to higher earners to pay more, but the suggestion those earning more are benefiting more from society is laughable.

I'm a pretty high earner and I understand that this has in part come from the benefits that living in this society with all of its opportunities and services afforded not only to me but to my parents and extended family for generations.

Tell you what, if you think that you haven't benefitted from society go and live the Libertarian paradise of Somalia and tell us how much you'll earn if you were raised there.

You're right - we are fortunate to live in the society we do, however, that does not mean that those who have made the best of those opportunities owes any more.

 

[Rascal]

You're right - we are fortunate to live in the society we do, however, that does not mean that those who have made the best of those opportunities owes any more.

Out of interest what about those who start with better opportunities.

How do you feel about them?

 

[EalingBlue2]

You're right - we are fortunate to live in the society we do, however, that does not mean that those who have made the best of those opportunities owes any more.

Out of interest what about those who start with better opportunities.

How do you feel about them?

from what I see in life it is not usually about who makes the best of their opportunities but who gets the best opportunities.

Watch the 7 up series, around the world and see how in nearly every case people end up roughly where they started . Those growing up in relative luxury with a good education tend to end up in relative luxury with a good education and the same with those who grow up with little. The idea that because you were given all the aces that is fair and those dealt 2 7 off suit somehow deserve it is plain wrong.

I pay the top rate of tax and am probably in the top 1% of tax payers and happily pay 10x what someone working in a factory out west does. Why ? Because I am where I am because of me, but had I not had a decent comprehensive education, a decent university education, a good up bringing where I learnt to work, had I not benefitted from the Health service when I had acute appendicitis or been protected by the police and given a working society to be part of them who knows where I would be - possibly on benefits - who knows

 

[TangerineSteve17]

You're right - we are fortunate to live in the society we do, however, that does not mean that those who have made the best of those opportunities owes any more.

Out of interest what about those who start with better opportunities.

How do you feel about them?

from what I see in life it is not usually about who makes the best of their opportunities but who gets the best opportunities.

Watch the 7 up series, around the world and see how in nearly every case people end up roughly where they started . Those growing up in relative luxury with a good education tend to end up in relative luxury with a good education and the same with those who grow up with little. The idea that because you were given all the aces that is fair and those dealt 2 7 off suit somehow deserve it is plain wrong.

I pay the top rate of tax and am probably in the top 1% of tax payers and happily pay 10x what someone working in a factory out west does. Why ? Because I am where I am because of me, but had I not had a decent comprehensive education, a decent university education, a good up bringing where I learnt to work, had I not benefitted from the Health service when I had acute appendicitis or been protected by the police and given a working society to be part of them who knows where I would be - possibly on benefits - who knows

Rich woman :)

 

[Mustard Dave]

You're right - we are fortunate to live in the society we do, however, that does not mean that those who have made the best of those opportunities owes any more.

Out of interest what about those who start with better opportunities.

How do you feel about them?

I couldn't give a shit - good luck to them. If somebody is fortunate enough , I do not begrudge them that opportunity, as I do not support the same politics of envy that you do.

 

[Damocles]

You're right - we are fortunate to live in the society we do, however, that does not mean that those who have made the best of those opportunities owes any more.

Out of interest what about those who start with better opportunities.

How do you feel about them?

I couldn't give a shit - good luck to them. If somebody is fortunate enough , I do not begrudge them that opportunity, as I do not support the same politics of envy that you do.

He meant do you think they should give more considering that they started with a fairly clear advantage that others didn't?

I don't support the politics of envy, I support the politics of not being a dick to people and understanding that as an educated white male in a society that has massive advantages for being an educated white male then it's fair to say that I have benefitted from our society.

 

[Mustard Dave]

Out of interest what about those who start with better opportunities.

How do you feel about them?

I couldn't give a shit - good luck to them. If somebody is fortunate enough , I do not begrudge them that opportunity, as I do not support the same politics of envy that you do.

He meant do you think they should give more considering that they started with a fairly clear advantage that others didn't?

I don't support the politics of envy, I support the politics of not being a dick to people and understanding that as an educated white male in a society that has massive advantages for being an educated white male then it's fair to say that I have benefitted from our society.

I never said they shouldn't pay more. As I said in my first post, higher earners should pay more. What I disagree with is the notion that those with more have taken more from society.

 

[TangerineSteve17]

Out of interest what about those who start with better opportunities.

How do you feel about them?

I couldn't give a shit - good luck to them. If somebody is fortunate enough , I do not begrudge them that opportunity, as I do not support the same politics of envy that you do.

He meant do you think they should give more considering that they started with a fairly clear advantage that others didn't?

I don't support the politics of envy, I support the politics of not being a dick to people and understanding that as an educated white male in a society that has massive advantages for being an educated white male then it's fair to say that I have benefitted from our society.

It's personal, but not really...

You are right. İ have read enough that you were priveledged relative to me. People should realize this thing. It is nothing to upset about.. Victim or circumstance? I've heard that.

We do (bluff) if we are dealt shit cards. We try to get better cards .. Shit analogy, but it is easily understandable.

Those that don't see this.. i don't understand. Are they insulated in a different manner? It is a curiosity.

 

[mad4city]

I couldn't give a shit - good luck to them. If somebody is fortunate enough , I do not begrudge them that opportunity, as I do not support the same politics of envy that you do.

He meant do you think they should give more considering that they started with a fairly clear advantage that others didn't?

I don't support the politics of envy, I support the politics of not being a dick to people and understanding that as an educated white male in a society that has massive advantages for being an educated white male then it's fair to say that I have benefitted from our society.

I never said they shouldn't pay more. As I said in my first post, higher earners should pay more. What I disagree with is the notion that those with more have taken more from society.

It isn't just those at the bottom who engage in the politics of envy. Plenty of arse-lickers in the middle classes are as guilty.
Crude example at this stage in history but... It wasn't the archetypal working class scrounger who toadied up to Thatcher and her minions, for example - and that debt to society is still being paid.

 

[EalingBlue2]

The whole idea of the politics of envy comes from the right as only someone's whose outlook was for pure self interest would think like that. Which is why envy actually exists far more in social climbers and those who think in a more right wing self interested way. In a way all the bitching about benefits bludgers is just envy about the fact you are perceiving someone else getting something for nothing!

Perhaps, the politics of gratitude or politics of fairness is a better name!

The labour movement, was never about envy, it was about basic standards, basic safety, basic guarantees on pay and giving opportunity to all not just the priveledged few.

I am pretty content in life - I don't have any feelings of envy but since being a little kid in Manchester I have had a strong sense of injustice and the unfairness of opportunity. I went to parrs wood and the demographic mix there was huge and even at 11 it was clear those who had and those who didnt and who had been handed the good hands in life . Making these hands more equal is what its about, from there it is up to people how they use them.