Fernando Torres [Merged]

[franksven]

certainly dont want Ibra...!!!!

I give up...

I fucking give up...

*shakes head in disbelief*

Its pointless CTID, Some people just don't know when there onto such a good thing.

 

[simon23]

Okay Simon, if he signs, I'll bet you a sum of your choice that he scores 20 goals in his first season.

I know all the pro's and con's because this debate has been done to death on this forum but my personal view is that you don't get to where he has got in the game if you are not going to score goals. You do not conduct the sort of transfer fees that he has done if the team buying you has not got full confidence in your ability to score goals. You do not play under two of the most respected managers in the modern game, Jose Mourinho & Pep Guardiola, and become a regular first teamer who scores 20 goals a season more or less season in, season out and play for clubs of the magnitude of Juventus, Inter Milan and currently the best team in the world, Barcelona.

Now I know people call him lazy and say he won't adjust. My questions are these:

A) How often do you watch him play?
B) Could his "laziness" simply be down to his knowledge of the pace of the game?
C) How do you know he won't adjust if he has never been in the premiership?

You're going off assumptions, not facts and what is a fact is that he has scored goals wherever he has been. He'd add height, he'd add goals, he'd add strength in depth and if Adebayor got banned or injured we'd have a ready made replacement in the same class or superior class to Adebayor.

firstly.....im not going off plain assumptions...i basing my opinions on a reasonable knowledge of the game (both a coaching background for 10 yrs and as a fan of football for over 30yrs)...and facts and stats can be misleading as wll so i go off what i see with my own eyes

Ive watched him enough.. to form an opinion.

his scoring of goals in the first part of his career is irrlevant...its was in a far inferior league

i keep hearing about his strength on the ball but for one so strong he is knocked off it remarkably easily.....

he has height and is good in the air...yup i agree....

and barca obvioulsy believ they have misplaced their faith by paying so much for him if after not that long there they are willing to sell him....if he is so good...why are they (ifthe reports are true) looking to sell him...,maybe they have realised that he aint that good!...now please dont get me wrong...he is a good player...but he is vastly overrated.....the hype around him is immense

he is without question lazy....

you say he is superior to ade...hmm im not so sure
there are however strikers out there that are better than ibra in my opinion

drogba, eto'o torres, villa, tevez, higuain...all better without question...you could also add at club level...rooney (though im sure some will disagree with me on that).....id prefer RVP than ibra

look at the example of schevchenko before he went to chelski......was supposed to be one of the best in the world and couldnt cut it in the prem.....and i think the saem would happen to ibra

i agree that we do need strength in depth...but believe that is better gained through purchasing a different striker to Ibra

but thanks for the response...much better than throw away bullshit responses

 

[RandyBlue]

Okay Simon, if he signs, I'll bet you a sum of your choice that he scores 20 goals in his first season.

I know all the pro's and con's because this debate has been done to death on this forum but my personal view is that you don't get to where he has got in the game if you are not going to score goals. You do not conduct the sort of transfer fees that he has done if the team buying you has not got full confidence in your ability to score goals. You do not play under two of the most respected managers in the modern game, Jose Mourinho & Pep Guardiola, and become a regular first teamer who scores 20 goals a season more or less season in, season out and play for clubs of the magnitude of Juventus, Inter Milan and currently the best team in the world, Barcelona.

Now I know people call him lazy and say he won't adjust. My questions are these:

A) How often do you watch him play?
B) Could his "laziness" simply be down to his knowledge of the pace of the game?
C) How do you know he won't adjust if he has never been in the premiership?

You're going off assumptions, not facts and what is a fact is that he has scored goals wherever he has been. He'd add height, he'd add goals, he'd add strength in depth and if Adebayor got banned or injured we'd have a ready made replacement in the same class or superior class to Adebayor.

firstly.....im not going off plain assumptions...i basing my opinions on a reasonable knowledge of the game (both a coaching background for 10 yrs and as a fan of football for over 30yrs)...and facts and stats can be misleading as wll so i go off what i see with my own eyes

Ive watched him enough.. to form an opinion.

his scoring of goals in the first part of his career is irrlevant...its was in a far inferior league

i keep hearing about his strength on the ball but for one so strong he is knocked off it remarkably easily.....

he has height and is good in the air...yup i agree....

and barca obvioulsy believ they have misplaced their faith by paying so much for him if after not that long there they are willing to sell him....if he is so good...why are they (ifthe reports are true) looking to sell him...,maybe they have realised that he aint that good!...now please dont get me wrong...he is a good player...but he is vastly overrated.....the hype around him is immense

he is without question lazy....

you say he is superior to ade...hmm im not so sure
there are however strikers out there that are better than ibra in my opinion

drogba, eto'o torres, villa, tevez, higuain...all better without question...you could also add at club level...rooney (though im sure some will disagree with me on that).....id prefer RVP than ibra

look at the example of schevchenko before he went to chelski......was supposed to be one of the best in the world and couldnt cut it in the prem.....and i think the saem would happen to ibra

i agree that we do need strength in depth...but believe that is better gained through purchasing a different striker to Ibra

but thanks for the response...much better than throw away bullshit responses

Who did you coach - The Samaritans?

 

[simon23]

firstly.....im not going off plain assumptions...i basing my opinions on a reasonable knowledge of the game (both a coaching background for 10 yrs and as a fan of football for over 30yrs)...and facts and stats can be misleading as wll so i go off what i see with my own eyes

Ive watched him enough.. to form an opinion.

his scoring of goals in the first part of his career is irrlevant...its was in a far inferior league

i keep hearing about his strength on the ball but for one so strong he is knocked off it remarkably easily.....

he has height and is good in the air...yup i agree....

and barca obvioulsy believ they have misplaced their faith by paying so much for him if after not that long there they are willing to sell him....if he is so good...why are they (ifthe reports are true) looking to sell him...,maybe they have realised that he aint that good!...now please dont get me wrong...he is a good player...but he is vastly overrated.....the hype around him is immense

he is without question lazy....

you say he is superior to ade...hmm im not so sure
there are however strikers out there that are better than ibra in my opinion

drogba, eto'o torres, villa, tevez, higuain...all better without question...you could also add at club level...rooney (though im sure some will disagree with me on that).....id prefer RVP than ibra

look at the example of schevchenko before he went to chelski......was supposed to be one of the best in the world and couldnt cut it in the prem.....and i think the saem would happen to ibra

i agree that we do need strength in depth...but believe that is better gained through purchasing a different striker to Ibra

but thanks for the response...much better than throw away bullshit responses

Who did you coach - The Samaritans?

lol...again pointless drivle...why bother?

 

[C_T_I_D]

How is his scoring of goals in the first part of his career irrelevant? It got him recognised and eventually where he is to this very day. The thing is Simon is that you can only play what is put in front of you in whatever league you play in. It's not his fault that he done it in the Italian and Spanish League is it?

I just seem to think that with Ibra you have the option to play him as part of a pair or you can play him as the lone striker and he'd do a good job for us in both roles. As for his strength, he didn't seem to have much problem steamrollering his way past Arsenal in the Champions League, but I think you are more basing that opinion on the Bolton's, Blackburn's and Stokes of this world. What I would say is that for every Stoke, there's a Chelsea or rag match to follow and he'd still net his fair share of goals. It's to be expected given his pedigree, his past history and probably most significantly the fee he'd conduct.

The amount of times that this fella has been nominated for the world player of the year award speaks for itself when saying he is overrated. I am not overrating him when I say he's a brilliant goalscorer because his stats and his reputation speak that for itself.

The problem with Drogba, Eto'o, Villa, Higauin is that they won't be sold anytime soon nor will Tevez as long as he's got a contract with us and is happy. When mentioning Shevchenko the problem with him was not his ability, it was the same as Forlan, not being able to adjust but Mancini knows how to manage and thus will know how to play Ibrahimovic in the premiership. He has a proven goalscoring pedigree throughout Europe.

Your last response "I agree that we do need strength in depth...but believe that is better gained through purchasing a different striker to Ibra". What do you mean by that? Can you expand further please? I don't understand what point you are trying to make / the benefits of purchasing a different striker to Ibra?

No problem Simon. I enjoyed a good debate once in a while =) Your thoughts are most welcome =)

 

[samharris]

firstly.....im not going off plain assumptions...i basing my opinions on a reasonable knowledge of the game (both a coaching background for 10 yrs and as a fan of football for over 30yrs)...and facts and stats can be misleading as wll so i go off what i see with my own eyes

Ive watched him enough.. to form an opinion.

his scoring of goals in the first part of his career is irrlevant...its was in a far inferior league

i keep hearing about his strength on the ball but for one so strong he is knocked off it remarkably easily.....

he has height and is good in the air...yup i agree....

and barca obvioulsy believ they have misplaced their faith by paying so much for him if after not that long there they are willing to sell him....if he is so good...why are they (ifthe reports are true) looking to sell him...,maybe they have realised that he aint that good!...now please dont get me wrong...he is a good player...but he is vastly overrated.....the hype around him is immense

he is without question lazy....

you say he is superior to ade...hmm im not so sure
there are however strikers out there that are better than ibra in my opinion

drogba, eto'o torres, villa, tevez, higuain...all better without question...you could also add at club level...rooney (though im sure some will disagree with me on that).....id prefer RVP than ibra

look at the example of schevchenko before he went to chelski......was supposed to be one of the best in the world and couldnt cut it in the prem.....and i think the saem would happen to ibra

i agree that we do need strength in depth...but believe that is better gained through purchasing a different striker to Ibra

but thanks for the response...much better than throw away bullshit responses

Who did you coach - The Samaritans?

yep...and everytime they scored they comforted the opposition.

 

[RandyBlue]

Who did you coach - The Samaritans?

lol...again pointless drivle...why bother?

Mate. Three things. Acquire a sense of humour. Also if you're going to accuse me of writing drivel at least spell drivel correctly. And, finally, cheer up pal, have a beer, go out and have some fun. Just fugging stop being so negative about everything.

 

[simon23]

How is his scoring of goals in the first part of his career irrelevant? It got him recognised and eventually where he is to this very day. The thing is Simon is that you can only play what is put in front of you in whatever league you play in. It's not his fault that he done it in the Italian and Spanish League is it?

I just seem to think that with Ibra you have the option to play him as part of a pair or you can play him as the lone striker and he'd do a good job for us in both roles. As for his strength, he didn't seem to have much problem steamrollering his way past Arsenal in the Champions League, but I think you are more basing that opinion on the Bolton's, Blackburn's and Stokes of this world. What I would say is that for every Stoke, there's a Chelsea or rag match to follow and he'd still net his fair share of goals. It's to be expected given his pedigree, his past history and probably most significantly the fee he'd conduct.

The amount of times that this fella has been nominated for the world player of the year award speaks for itself when saying he is overrated. I am not overrating him when I say he's a brilliant goalscorer because his stats and his reputation speak that for itself.

The problem with Drogba, Eto'o, Villa, Higauin is that they won't be sold anytime soon nor will Tevez as long as he's got a contract with us and is happy. When mentioning Shevchenko the problem with him was not his ability, it was the same as Forlan, not being able to adjust but Mancini knows how to manage and thus will know how to play Ibrahimovic in the premiership. He has a proven goalscoring pedigree throughout Europe.

Your last response "I agree that we do need strength in depth...but believe that is better gained through purchasing a different striker to Ibra". What do you mean by that? Can you expand further please? I don't understand what point you are trying to make / the benefits of purchasing a different striker to Ibra?

No problem Simon. I enjoyed a good debate once in a while =) Your thoughts are most welcome =)

cheers CTID....i didnt mean anything specific by the last sentence...just that if we are looking at strenghtening our depth of squad then we (in my opinion) should look at alternatives.....and would someone the likes of Ibra be content with a squad position and not a regular starting place...???...would he expect to as in my opinion the only strker at the club who can expect that all the time...is tevez

-- Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:14 pm --

lol...again pointless drivle...why bother?

Mate. Three things. Acquire a sense of humour. Also if you're going to accuse me of writing drivel at least spell drivel correctly. And, finally, cheer up pal, have a beer, go out and have some fun. Just fugging stop being so negative about everything.

4 things

1...i have a sense of humour....humour is a very hard thing to convey by txt!
2....my typing is shit and half the time i cannt be arsed to correct it even when its got big red lines underneath it
3.....if you knew me then you would know i have an awful lot to be happy about.....!!...and am!!! ;-)
4.....was i negative about yaya...no, was i negative about silva...no....was i neagtive about boatang????.......no.....so your last statement is bullshit!

if we got torres i wouldnt be negative...id be over the bloody (blue) moon!!

its amazing to see that when someone comes on here and has a different opinion to the majority, then they get labelled as one of a number of things.....negative or a rag..

-- Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:16 pm --

How is his scoring of goals in the first part of his career irrelevant? It got him recognised and eventually where he is to this very day. The thing is Simon is that you can only play what is put in front of you in whatever league you play in. It's not his fault that he done it in the Italian and Spanish League is it?

I just seem to think that with Ibra you have the option to play him as part of a pair or you can play him as the lone striker and he'd do a good job for us in both roles. As for his strength, he didn't seem to have much problem steamrollering his way past Arsenal in the Champions League, but I think you are more basing that opinion on the Bolton's, Blackburn's and Stokes of this world. What I would say is that for every Stoke, there's a Chelsea or rag match to follow and he'd still net his fair share of goals. It's to be expected given his pedigree, his past history and probably most significantly the fee he'd conduct.

The amount of times that this fella has been nominated for the world player of the year award speaks for itself when saying he is overrated. I am not overrating him when I say he's a brilliant goalscorer because his stats and his reputation speak that for itself.

The problem with Drogba, Eto'o, Villa, Higauin is that they won't be sold anytime soon nor will Tevez as long as he's got a contract with us and is happy. When mentioning Shevchenko the problem with him was not his ability, it was the same as Forlan, not being able to adjust but Mancini knows how to manage and thus will know how to play Ibrahimovic in the premiership. He has a proven goalscoring pedigree throughout Europe.

Your last response "I agree that we do need strength in depth...but believe that is better gained through purchasing a different striker to Ibra". What do you mean by that? Can you expand further please? I don't understand what point you are trying to make / the benefits of purchasing a different striker to Ibra?

No problem Simon. I enjoyed a good debate once in a while =) Your thoughts are most welcome =)

cheers CTID....i didnt mean anything specific by the last sentence...just that if we are looking at strenghtening our depth of squad then we (in my opinion) should look at alternatives.....and would someone the likes of Ibra be content with a squad position and not a regular starting place...???...would he expect to as in my opinion the only strker at the club who can expect that all the time...is tevez

-- Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:14 pm --

Mate. Three things. Acquire a sense of humour. Also if you're going to accuse me of writing drivel at least spell drivel correctly. And, finally, cheer up pal, have a beer, go out and have some fun. Just fugging stop being so negative about everything.

4 things

1...i have a sense of humour....humour is a very hard thing to convey by txt!
2....my typing is shit and half the time i cannt be arsed to correct it even when its got big red lines underneath it
3.....if you knew me then you would know i have an awful lot to be happy about.....!!...and am!!! ;-)
4.....was i negative about yaya...no, was i negative about silva...no....was i neagtive about boatang????.......no.....so your last statement is bullshit!

if we got torres i wouldnt be negative...id be over the bloody (blue) moon!!

its amazing to see that when someone comes on here and has a different opinion to the majority, then they get labelled as one of a number of things.....negative or a rag..

 

[alabama]

How is his scoring of goals in the first part of his career irrelevant? It got him recognised and eventually where he is to this very day. The thing is Simon is that you can only play what is put in front of you in whatever league you play in. It's not his fault that he done it in the Italian and Spanish League is it?

I just seem to think that with Ibra you have the option to play him as part of a pair or you can play him as the lone striker and he'd do a good job for us in both roles. As for his strength, he didn't seem to have much problem steamrollering his way past Arsenal in the Champions League, but I think you are more basing that opinion on the Bolton's, Blackburn's and Stokes of this world. What I would say is that for every Stoke, there's a Chelsea or rag match to follow and he'd still net his fair share of goals. It's to be expected given his pedigree, his past history and probably most significantly the fee he'd conduct.

The amount of times that this fella has been nominated for the world player of the year award speaks for itself when saying he is overrated. I am not overrating him when I say he's a brilliant goalscorer because his stats and his reputation speak that for itself.

The problem with Drogba, Eto'o, Villa, Higauin is that they won't be sold anytime soon nor will Tevez as long as he's got a contract with us and is happy. When mentioning Shevchenko the problem with him was not his ability, it was the same as Forlan, not being able to adjust but Mancini knows how to manage and thus will know how to play Ibrahimovic in the premiership. He has a proven goalscoring pedigree throughout Europe.

Your last response "I agree that we do need strength in depth...but believe that is better gained through purchasing a different striker to Ibra". What do you mean by that? Can you expand further please? I don't understand what point you are trying to make / the benefits of purchasing a different striker to Ibra?

No problem Simon. I enjoyed a good debate once in a while =) Your thoughts are most welcome =)

I've not seen a massive amount of Ibra, but from what I've seen, I think he'd be a huge gamble in the premier league. I really don't think he'd cut it with the faster paced and less skillful game played here.

You mention that Shevchenko's problem was that he couldn't adjust and that Mancini knows how to manage. I assume you mean he knows how to manage Ibra, as Shevchenko's manager was Mourinho, so I don't think you can put his lack of adjustment down to the manager.

I'd also be worried about why Barca are willing to let him go so quickly. Yes, they've just got Villa who is better, but it's strange that they paid so much, yet are willing to see him go with the general impression that he has been a flop (regardless of how many goals he's scored).

Finally, when Eto'o was at Barca, they won the CL. They swapped him for Ibra and Inter win the CL. I think it's safe to say that Eto'o>Ibra, in terms of what a team gets from him. despite Barca sending Eto'o and cash to Inter.

If we can't get Torres, and I'd be concerned about paying more than c£50m for him with his recent injuries, I'd go for Dzecko, as I suspect his style will be better suited to the PL and he's probably hungrier for success than Ibra.

 

[BenchillBlue]

Torres thread?