Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

[Skashion]

Re: Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

Pellegrini is not going to dominate English football plus Europe.

The league's too competitive for anyone to dominate it. Barring a changes of ownership at Spurs/Liverpool, I expect next season will be an even tougher league title to win than this one.

I also don't think that the appointment of Pellegrini can be compared to that of Pep. Pep came with zero track record and was a very calculated risk. Pellegrini was arguably the best available manager of the type City wanted this summer. Certainly his track record was better than the younger coaches like De Boer and Laudrup.

For forty years, more often than not the title was won by one team spanning two eras of dominance. That's where I want us to be. I want to make that sixty years and three eras of dominance.

Is that the correct type to bring us success? I'm not going to judge the success of a managerial appointment merely on the basis of the style of a manager. I'm not going to judge that at all. Trophies in cabinets, not Txiki's football wankbank habits.

 

[bernabias home shirt]

I don't think that Baconface's record at the swamp helps your argument one little bit.

It strengthens my argument. Ferguson dominated a league in which the rags were the financial super powers for most of it. The competition now in comparison with 10 years ago is very different and much more intense.

Even on a player acquisition level ... you've got clubs like Spurs and Liverpool who aren't playing CL football being able to scout and attract top players like Coutinho, Eriksen, Lamela etc.

Who knows though ... maybe Skashion's right and Pellegrini won't dominate English or European football, but someone else in England will. For my money it can only be Chelsea/Mourinho then. Nobody else has the resources and the nous to get so far in front that they begin to dominate.

Chelsea have also been a financial superpower since 2003 when Abramovich bought that club but it still didn't stop five more titles going to the swamp.

One thing is for sure lets hope to hell gollum with that team doesn't finish above us
We've serious problems if he does.

 

[Anonymous]

For forty years, more often than not the title was won by one team spanning two eras of dominance. That's where I want us to be. I want to make that sixty years and three eras of dominance.

Is that the correct type to bring us success? I'm not going to judge the success of a managerial appointment merely on the basis of the style of a manager. I'm not going to judge that at all. Trophies in cabinets, not Txiki's football wankbank habits.

Surely just wanting something doesn't meant you will get it or that you're even entitled to it. City absolutely have the resources to dominate English football, but then so do Chelsea, Arsenal, and United. It's therefore unrealistic to expect any one of those teams to individually dominate for any prolonged period of time. They might collectively dominate it though.

I don't think it's relevant what you think a successful manager is or should be. We have the manager we have, and he's pretty much new in the job. My point about Pep was simply that Pep was a big calculated risk. Pellegrini wasn't.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

We can certainly do without cheap shots but that goes for both sides.

If I responded in a likewise manner to what he wrote you would ban me in the blink of an eye and you know you would.

Well there you go again, making ridiculous assumptions and coming to completely incorrect conclusions.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

Chelsea have also been a financial superpower since 2003 when Abramovich bought that club but it still didn't stop five more titles going to the swamp.

United have been a financial superpower since the advent of the PL. I'm not entirely sure what the point is you're trying to make mate.

1... You said no-one will dominate the league
2... I pointed out that Fergie did
3... You said he did only because of the money
4... I said Chelsea also had the money since 2003
5... I said that Fergie still racked up the titles even though Chelsea had the money.

That's the point I make. Money helps, but it's proper management that will win in the end. Whether we have that proper management team in place, only time will tell. Oh for the benefit of foresight rather than just hindsight!

 

[Anonymous]

1... You said no-one will dominate the league
2... I pointed out that Fergie did
3... You said he did only because of the money
4... I said Chelsea also had the money since 2003
5... I said that Fergie still racked up the titles even though Chelsea had the money.

That's the point I make. Money helps, but it's proper management that will win in the end. Whether we have that proper management team in place, only time will tell. Oh for the benefit of foresight rather than just hindsight!

Hang on... United didn't dominate the last decade then did they? If They won five titles, Chelsea won 4, and we won 1 that'd suggest a pretty even spread between the two financial super powers.

So ergo in the next 10 years, if we have this season as the starting point, you'd expect the same to be true ... ie. the top financial super powers to dominate. Not one team.

Your right about proper management though. Both on the field and off to be a consistently successful club you need the right people not just at the coaching level, but off the field in player recruitment, etc. A happy club is a healthy club is a successful club. As soon as you've got players, manager, executives, slagging each other off in the press when they're all employed by the same club you've got a problem IMO.

 

[OB1]

I'm entirely open minded about Pellegrini. I like some of the things he's done but I'm worried about a number of other things he's done and our away form in general. In the same way I'm happy to praise Mancini for his achievements and criticise him for his failures.

But I also know it takes time for a new manager to fully implement his ideas and no one has a divine right to win every game. So while I'm a bit nervous at the moment I'm not going to panic until I see where we are around March.

But whatever happens, FS & TB will still be around for a while as they have an entirely different job to do. Anyone who doesn't understand that is, frankly, not too bright.

I always admire those of you who try to reason with the resident window lickers. TGR's understanding of football is up there with that of the floater I left in my bog this morning!

Have a word with yourself mate. I don't agree with his assessment of FS & TB at all and he needs to let go of his disappointment of Mancini's sacking (which for me is their only blot on an otherwise successful time so far) but there's no need to use that term. It shows you, and all those who chuckle like kids at its use up.
You're more than a match when you stick to the subject matter, there's no need to get involved with the other shit.

What, the one he left in the porcelain?

 

[Skashion]

Surely just wanting something doesn't meant you will get it or that you're even entitled to it. City absolutely have the resources to dominate English football, but then so do Chelsea, Arsenal, and United. It's therefore unrealistic to expect any one of those teams to individually dominate for any prolonged period of time. They might collectively dominate it though.

I don't think it's relevant what you think a successful manager is or should be. We have the manager we have, and he's pretty much new in the job. My point about Pep was simply that Pep was a big calculated risk. Pellegrini wasn't.

I'm ambitious about this club's prospects for success. I think we can dominate and that's what we should aim for and I said it long before Pellegrini came along. I know style of football is more important to you though so I don't expect you to understand my point of view.

It's a football forum Billy. We come here to give our opinions on football. It's not a special needs school. We get to deliver our verdicts on managers, players, the board etc. I'm not moved to apologise for not wanting our club to be the proving grounds of an egotistical version of where style matters over results. Style brings results fine, style fails to bring results, change. Oh, and please don't protest that this is what Mansour and Khaldoon want. No, it isn't. They want the results. Otherwise they wouldn't have employed Mancini and been so troubled in sacking him. They've bought into a vision, that's fine, as I've said a lot of times I am also a fan of the Barcelona model, but if it doesn't work, eventually, we cannot persist for style's sake alone.

 

[Anonymous]

Style brings results fine, style fails to bring results, change. Oh, and please don't protest that this is what Mansour and Khaldoon want. No, it isn't. They want the results. Otherwise they wouldn't have employed Mancini and been so troubled in sacking him. They've bought into a vision, that's fine, as I've said a lot of times I am also a fan of the Barcelona model, but if it doesn't work, eventually, we cannot persist for style's sake alone.

I'm intrigued as to how you think you know what Khaldoon and Mansour want. What we can judge them on is what's happened this summer. The club's at a very important juncture in it's evolution, both on the field and off. They've chosen to go in a direction.

Also for the record, when Hughes was sacked the club had few options because it was mid season and because good managers are normally in other jobs. This summer was the first chance they had to bring someone in from a wider pool and they've chosen to go in a certain direction. That's a good indicator as to what's important to them. Especially when having won nothing last season, they could easily have a) given Mancini carte blanche in the transfer market or b) brought in another trophy heavy manager like Benitez, Mourinho, or Capello.

We've strayed wildly from the point I was trying to make earlier - which was simply that Pep was a much bigger gamble when Txiki gave him the Barca job than Pellegrini was this summer.

 

[Skashion]

I'm intrigued as to how you think you know what Khaldoon and Mansour want. What we can judge them on is what's happened this summer. The club's at a very important juncture in it's evolution, both on the field and off. They've chosen to go in a direction.

Also for the record, when Hughes was sacked the club had few options because it was mid season and because good managers are normally in other jobs. This summer was the first chance they had to bring someone in from a wider pool and they've chosen to go in a certain direction. That's a good indicator as to what's important to them. Especially when having won nothing last season, they could easily have a) given Mancini carte blanche in the transfer market or b) brought in another trophy heavy manager like Benitez, Mourinho, or Capello.

We've strayed wildly from the point I was trying to make earlier - which was simply that Pep was a much bigger gamble when Txiki gave him the Barca job than Pellegrini was this summer.

No, what we can judge them on is everything they've done and said to date during their lives and at five years in this football club. Everything I've seen suggests these guys want success. The route via which it is gotten is incidental. It's merely a path. If the more idealistic attacking football fails to achieve the success they think they ought to have achieved, change won't be too far away.