Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

[Anonymous]

Re: Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

and the other is in a museum in Florence wondering what the fuck he is looking at.

Cruel, but fucking funny!

 

[inbetween]

The youth system produced Micah, Michael Johnson and Sturridge in the five years prior to the takeover. if anything the quality of players has regressed not progressed. Difficult to say who is responsible but it is a point worth considering.

I disagree, I'd say that rather than the quality of players we're producing regressing, the step from the youth teams to the first team is now enormous whereas when Micah, Studge, and Jonno first broke through they were probably close to our best players because the quality in our squad was so poor.

You cannot, under any circumstances, expect to see value from a youth system put in place slowly over a five year period, overnight. It's a stupid mindset to have. Look at the rags and their much vaunted youth system. How many of their current first team squad come from it?

You can put all the best coaches in place and sign all the best young players from around the country, there's still ZERO guarantee that they'll be good enough to play for your first team. In that sense the point of the academy is as much about having a production line of players you can sell to generate revenues as it is about providing the first team. The first team players IMO, will be one every three or four years maximum. And even that only after we've had a decade of development of technical coaching.

Producing entire teams out of youth players is a complete myth anyway. If anyone thinks that by building a huge academy (which only opened a couple of months ago!!) we will suddenly see a team of full-blooded local mancs playing like Messi, you are so wrong. The actual thing about most academies is it is a total myth in itself that these academies actually produce anything anyway. I'd say only 5% of players at the top level actually go on to play in the league their club is in, even less will go on to play for their actual club at our level where it is probably only the odd player. Academies are essentially proving grounds where young players are put into a team and are given the best facilities and coaches but it is ultimately up to them to improve themselves and fulfill their potential. Producing quality players however is not about putting work in to an academy, it is all about the scouting network.

The REAL challenge in getting the best youth players through the system is finding them in the first place and that is where a global network of scouts comes into play. It is no longer a case of sending some bloke with a notepad to the local fields. City now need to have a global scouting presence and that is something that takes a considerable amount of time and effort. No academy of any size can compensate for that. The next world great player is out there somewhere but whether WE find him is completely down to luck and having someone in the right place at the right time. Messi for example wasn't wholly produced by Barcelona, he was scouted and everyone knew how good he could become, that comes with experience in the people who are scouting and it is no wonder they put so much effort in bringing him there. After that if you put someone with that level of potential training with world class players, they naturally raise to that level.

I don't know what City are doing on the scouting front but that is where the fruits of an academy come from, simply spending 100M on an academy is great but lets just say you cannot polish a turd. Of course it will help but the quality and breadth of scouting is what will decide on whether the academy produces great players or not. I'm sure a lot of our youth players are fantastic prospects but with the pressure to win trophies, only 1 or 2 will realistically make it to even a sniff of the first team. The rest of the gap will be filled by continuing to buy the best players, every single club in the world does it and we will not be any different.

 

[OB1]

Some really good posts there.

I agree about the importance of scouting and whilst it is one of many areas that the club has worked on, I think there is till work to do. Without be overly simplistic about things, I wonder if there is anyone we need to poach from Saints?

However, the benefits of any of this work will take time to come through at the junior levels and to expect legions of homegrown players making it through to the first team is wishful thinking but we ought to be able to produce a few diamonds here and there. What we should be able to do is produce some bodies that can round out our squads and that can be sold on so that the CFA ends up being a profit centre; and, if it can consistently pay its way, I would deem it a real success.

 

[aguero93:20]

Some really good posts there.

I agree about the importance of scouting and whilst it is one of many areas that the club has worked on, I think there is till work to do. Without be overly simplistic about things, I wonder if there is anyone we need to poach from Saints?

However, the benefits of any of this work will take time to come through at the junior levels and to expect legions of homegrown players making it through to the first team is wishful thinking but we ought to be able to produce a few diamonds here and there. What we should be able to do is produce some bodies that can round out our squads and that can be sold on so that the CFA ends up being a profit centre; and, if it can consistently pay its way, I would deem it a real success.

Southampton's biggest strength has been having a relatively big catchment area compared to other clubs (so I'm told), our academy status should negate any advantage they gained from that, definitely still worth looking at though.

Hopefully Denayer and Lopes will make the step up sooner rather than later, Lopes in particular looks like he could be a valuable member of the squad already and personally I wouldn't be too keen on sending him out again.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Some really good posts there.

I agree about the importance of scouting and whilst it is one of many areas that the club has worked on, I think there is till work to do. Without be overly simplistic about things, I wonder if there is anyone we need to poach from Saints?

However, the benefits of any of this work will take time to come through at the junior levels and to expect legions of homegrown players making it through to the first team is wishful thinking but we ought to be able to produce a few diamonds here and there. What we should be able to do is produce some bodies that can round out our squads and that can be sold on so that the CFA ends up being a profit centre; and, if it can consistently pay its way, I would deem it a real success.

Southampton's biggest strength has been having a relatively big catchment area compared to other clubs (so I'm told), our academy status should negate any advantage they gained from that, definitely still worth looking at though.

Hopefully Denayer and Lopes will make the step up sooner rather than later, Lopes in particular looks like he could be a valuable member of the squad already and personally I wouldn't be too keen on sending him out again.

An extremely valid point when it comes to scouting. We are in competition with about 10 clubs for the North West kids. There are only so many out there so we simply have to look worldwide.

Every club wants to bring kids through to save themselves money.

 

[franksinatra]

The youth system produced Micah, Michael Johnson and Sturridge in the five years prior to the takeover. if anything the quality of players has regressed not progressed. Difficult to say who is responsible but it is a point worth considering.

I disagree, I'd say that rather than the quality of players we're producing regressing, the step from the youth teams to the first team is now enormous whereas when Micah, Studge, and Jonno first broke through they were probably close to our best players because the quality in our squad was so poor.

You cannot, under any circumstances, expect to see value from a youth system put in place slowly over a five year period, overnight. It's a stupid mindset to have. Look at the rags and their much vaunted youth system. How many of their current first team squad come from it?

You can put all the best coaches in place and sign all the best young players from around the country, there's still ZERO guarantee that they'll be good enough to play for your first team. In that sense the point of the academy is as much about having a production line of players you can sell to generate revenues as it is about providing the first team. The first team players IMO, will be one every three or four years maximum. And even that only after we've had a decade of development of technical coaching.

Completely agree the bar has been raised for our youth players. That is indisputable and so is the fact that producing the top quality players from the academy will become more difficult. However I still think the players being produced such as Sturridge, Richards, Johnson were an improvement on the players over the past five years. Even though our net for players and our ability to attract players has significantly increased. Richards was a regular starter in our championship winning year and I would argue Sturridge would be a starter alongside Aguero now. Sadly no player of late has been close to forcing themselves into the squad let alone a first team regular.

I am not an expert on the youth system but did go to the recent Chelsea v City game at Aldershot and in all honesty no player stood out like Sturridge did against Liverpool in the youth cup final. Hopefully the younger age groups (who appear to be doing very well) will provide some players worthy of a squad place or even as you say to produce revenue.

 

[BillyShears]

The youth system produced Micah, Michael Johnson and Sturridge in the five years prior to the takeover. if anything the quality of players has regressed not progressed. Difficult to say who is responsible but it is a point worth considering.

I disagree, I'd say that rather than the quality of players we're producing regressing, the step from the youth teams to the first team is now enormous whereas when Micah, Studge, and Jonno first broke through they were probably close to our best players because the quality in our squad was so poor.

You cannot, under any circumstances, expect to see value from a youth system put in place slowly over a five year period, overnight. It's a stupid mindset to have. Look at the rags and their much vaunted youth system. How many of their current first team squad come from it?

You can put all the best coaches in place and sign all the best young players from around the country, there's still ZERO guarantee that they'll be good enough to play for your first team. In that sense the point of the academy is as much about having a production line of players you can sell to generate revenues as it is about providing the first team. The first team players IMO, will be one every three or four years maximum. And even that only after we've had a decade of development of technical coaching.

Completely agree the bar has been raised for our youth players. That is indisputable and so is the fact that producing the top quality players from the academy will become more difficult. However I still think the players being produced such as Sturridge, Richards, Johnson were an improvement on the players over the past five years. Even though our net for players and our ability to attract players has significantly increased. Richards was a regular starter in our championship winning year and I would argue Sturridge would be a starter alongside Aguero now. Sadly no player of late has been close to forcing themselves into the squad let alone a first team regular.

I am not an expert on the youth system but did go to the recent Chelsea v City game at Aldershot and in all honesty no player stood out like Sturridge did against Liverpool in the youth cup final. Hopefully the younger age groups (who appear to be doing very well) will provide some players worthy of a squad place or even as you say to produce revenue.

Thing is you're explaining your own gripe without realising it. In a different world, Lopes, Denayer, Rekik, they'd all be playing in our first team and we'd be going "wow check out the fruits of our academy". It's precisely because we are at the level we're at in the first team that you're not seeing players come through. This doesn't mean that we don't have very good players around, it just means that they're not quite good enough to play in our first team (yet).

Also, I don't really know what we did to 'produce' Sturridge. He came to us at 13 and was by all accounts that age already precociously talented. That was born out in the fact he immediately started scoring goals in our academy and breaking records. If you look at Richards, then his physical attributes were always the ones which brought him to the fore. Technically he was never a skilled player and his game intelligence has also always been lacking.

 

[franksinatra]

Some really good posts there.

I agree about the importance of scouting and whilst it is one of many areas that the club has worked on, I think there is till work to do. Without be overly simplistic about things, I wonder if there is anyone we need to poach from Saints?

However, the benefits of any of this work will take time to come through at the junior levels and to expect legions of homegrown players making it through to the first team is wishful thinking but we ought to be able to produce a few diamonds here and there. What we should be able to do is produce some bodies that can round out our squads and that can be sold on so that the CFA ends up being a profit centre; and, if it can consistently pay its way, I would deem it a real success.

Southampton's biggest strength has been having a relatively big catchment area compared to other clubs (so I'm told), our academy status should negate any advantage they gained from that, definitely still worth looking at though.

Hopefully Denayer and Lopes will make the step up sooner rather than later, Lopes in particular looks like he could be a valuable member of the squad already and personally I wouldn't be too keen on sending him out again.

An extremely valid point when it comes to scouting. We are in competition with about 10 clubs for the North West kids. There are only so many out there so we simply have to look worldwide.

Every club wants to bring kids through to save themselves money.

Yes it is a big catchment area but in all honesty it is not a hot bed of soccer either. Clearly the methodology at Southampton and the training of the players at an early age has a very positive influence on those players and ensures many continue to improve to fulfil their potential.

We are in a competitive catchment area but I am struggling to think of even one player from the locality, in the past five years, who has forged a decent career. If this is the case why do you think we are missing out? In days gone by Mee, Trippier, Sturridge have forged good careers for themselves. I am sure there are a couple but just cannot think of any.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

the biggest challenge is not talent spotting, but someone changing the attitude of what seems the majority of talented young English players, who fail to look after themselves properly, eat properly etc. Gareth Bale should be a role model but there are too many Wilshere's, Johnson's and Rooney's around who embarrass themselves on the world stage when they're all down with cramp and the ageing Italians are looking on bemused.

Let's be honest, we're pretty handy at producing talents that range from "completely full of themselves" to "complete and utter twats", it's a culture that I hope we are changing.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Southampton's biggest strength has been having a relatively big catchment area compared to other clubs (so I'm told), our academy status should negate any advantage they gained from that, definitely still worth looking at though.

Hopefully Denayer and Lopes will make the step up sooner rather than later, Lopes in particular looks like he could be a valuable member of the squad already and personally I wouldn't be too keen on sending him out again.

An extremely valid point when it comes to scouting. We are in competition with about 10 clubs for the North West kids. There are only so many out there so we simply have to look worldwide.

Every club wants to bring kids through to save themselves money.

Yes it is a big catchment area but in all honesty it is not a hot bed of soccer either. Clearly the methodology at Southampton and the training of the players at an early age has a very positive influence on those players and ensures many continue to improve to fulfil their potential.

We are in a competitive catchment area but I am struggling to think of even one player from the locality, in the past five years, who has forged a decent career. If this is the case why do you think we are missing out? In days gone by Mee, Trippier, Sturridge have forged good careers for themselves. I am sure there are a couple but just cannot think of any.

Even Sturridge isn't Manc.