Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

[r.soleofsalford]

That's complete nonsense on every level. There were good reasons why we didn't sign the players Mancini supposedly wanted after we won the title, some of which were the direct responsibility of Mancini himself.

And Khaldoon was Bobby's mate, not the Sheikh, and stuck up for him a few times against the Sheikh, who wasn't overly keen on him as manager (he preferred Mourinho). Mancini's fate was finally sealed when he went to Abu Dhabi after we'd played Newcastle and showed a distinct lack of respect to the Sheikh. Nothing was going to save him after that and the order was given to get rid.

Any links to this info?

Just for you...

Link

lol

 

[waspish]

Re: Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

He didn't have to do a lot to get the Etihad deal or benefit from increased TV revenues. They are the two biggest reasons we are about to break even!

I'm sure these guys have done good work but Ferran has seen us fail FFP and we are a long way from having youth players in the first team (never mind home grown).

When the next figures are released you should look at our total commercial income. Yes we have lots of Abu Dhabi based sponsorship deals, however we have a growing portfolio of deals which have nothing to do with AD.

Ferran hasn't seen us fail FFP, that's probably up there with one of the most stupid things i've seen posted on this forum in a long time. Ferran was brought in because FFP was introduced and it became clear that City needed to find a way to grow their commercial business to offset the 400 million or so that Hughes and Mancini spent.

Not sure why you've chosen to put that bit about youth players in. A youth system, a successful one anyway, will be developed over a decade, not over a few months.

Such a shame that basically most of the criticism that I read in this thread should be rewritten as "they sacked Mancini I hate them" because that's all it boils down to for you and one or two others. It's a bit fucking tragic if you ask me.

The youth system produced Micah, Michael Johnson and Sturridge in the five years prior to the takeover. if anything the quality of players has regressed not progressed. Difficult to say who is responsible but it is a point worth considering.

No! difference is the standard of the 1st team is a lot higher and also the manager now Has to win trophies so he doesn't give a shit about our youth players and that is the real shame..

 

[mayo31]

He didn't have to do a lot to get the Etihad deal or benefit from increased TV revenues. They are the two biggest reasons we are about to break even!

I'm sure these guys have done good work but Ferran has seen us fail FFP and we are a long way from having youth players in the first team (never mind home grown).

When the next figures are released you should look at our total commercial income. Yes we have lots of Abu Dhabi based sponsorship deals, however we have a growing portfolio of deals which have nothing to do with AD.

Ferran hasn't seen us fail FFP, that's probably up there with one of the most stupid things i've seen posted on this forum in a long time. Ferran was brought in because FFP was introduced and it became clear that City needed to find a way to grow their commercial business to offset the 400 million or so that Hughes and Mancini spent.

Not sure why you've chosen to put that bit about youth players in. A youth system, a successful one anyway, will be developed over a decade, not over a few months.

Such a shame that basically most of the criticism that I read in this thread should be rewritten as "they sacked Mancini I hate them" because that's all it boils down to for you and one or two others. It's a bit fucking tragic if you ask me.

The youth system produced Micah, Michael Johnson and Sturridge in the five years prior to the takeover. if anything the quality of players has regressed not progressed. Difficult to say who is responsible but it is a point worth considering.

Produced what exactly, out of them three only Sturridge has done a bit. The other two, well one has quit and the other is in a museum in Florence wondering what the fuck he is looking at.

Not exactly the greatest advert for our once wonderful youth system. It papered over massive cracks as it gave us something to say was positive about the club when actually none were ever going to take us to where we are now.

Lets see in 5 - 10 years what happens with the new set up.

 

[BillyShears]

The youth system produced Micah, Michael Johnson and Sturridge in the five years prior to the takeover. if anything the quality of players has regressed not progressed. Difficult to say who is responsible but it is a point worth considering.

I disagree, I'd say that rather than the quality of players we're producing regressing, the step from the youth teams to the first team is now enormous whereas when Micah, Studge, and Jonno first broke through they were probably close to our best players because the quality in our squad was so poor.

You cannot, under any circumstances, expect to see value from a youth system put in place slowly over a five year period, overnight. It's a stupid mindset to have. Look at the rags and their much vaunted youth system. How many of their current first team squad come from it?

You can put all the best coaches in place and sign all the best young players from around the country, there's still ZERO guarantee that they'll be good enough to play for your first team. In that sense the point of the academy is as much about having a production line of players you can sell to generate revenues as it is about providing the first team. The first team players IMO, will be one every three or four years maximum. And even that only after we've had a decade of development of technical coaching.

 

[franksinatra]

When the next figures are released you should look at our total commercial income. Yes we have lots of Abu Dhabi based sponsorship deals, however we have a growing portfolio of deals which have nothing to do with AD.

Ferran hasn't seen us fail FFP, that's probably up there with one of the most stupid things i've seen posted on this forum in a long time. Ferran was brought in because FFP was introduced and it became clear that City needed to find a way to grow their commercial business to offset the 400 million or so that Hughes and Mancini spent.

Not sure why you've chosen to put that bit about youth players in. A youth system, a successful one anyway, will be developed over a decade, not over a few months.

Such a shame that basically most of the criticism that I read in this thread should be rewritten as "they sacked Mancini I hate them" because that's all it boils down to for you and one or two others. It's a bit fucking tragic if you ask me.

The youth system produced Micah, Michael Johnson and Sturridge in the five years prior to the takeover. if anything the quality of players has regressed not progressed. Difficult to say who is responsible but it is a point worth considering.

Produced what exactly, out of them three only Sturridge has done a bit. The other two, well one has quit and the other is in a museum in Florence wondering what the fuck he is looking at.

Not exactly the greatest advert for our once wonderful youth system. It papered over massive cracks as it gave us something to say was positive about the club when actually none were ever going to take us to where we are now.

Lets see in 5 - 10 years what happens with the new set up.

I think it is pointless to argue with you. Micah has numerous international cap and a key cog in our championship winning year. Sturridge is a fantastic player and the best striker in England. Johnson was his own worst enemy but undoubtedly talented. So three players papering over the cracks. That is not bad in the last couple of years.

 

[Patientman63]

The youth system produced Micah, Michael Johnson and Sturridge in the five years prior to the takeover. if anything the quality of players has regressed not progressed. Difficult to say who is responsible but it is a point worth considering.

I disagree, I'd say that rather than the quality of players we're producing regressing, the step from the youth teams to the first team is now enormous whereas when Micah, Studge, and Jonno first broke through they were probably close to our best players because the quality in our squad was so poor.

You cannot, under any circumstances, expect to see value from a youth system put in place slowly over a five year period, overnight. It's a stupid mindset to have. Look at the rags and their much vaunted youth system. How many of their current first team squad come from it?

You can put all the best coaches in place and sign all the best young players from around the country, there's still ZERO guarantee that they'll be good enough to play for your first team. In that sense the point of the academy is as much about having a production line of players you can sell to generate revenues as it is about providing the first team. The first team players IMO, will be one every three or four years maximum. And even that only after we've had a decade of development of technical coaching.

 

[mayo31]

The youth system produced Micah, Michael Johnson and Sturridge in the five years prior to the takeover. if anything the quality of players has regressed not progressed. Difficult to say who is responsible but it is a point worth considering.

Produced what exactly, out of them three only Sturridge has done a bit. The other two, well one has quit and the other is in a museum in Florence wondering what the fuck he is looking at.

Not exactly the greatest advert for our once wonderful youth system. It papered over massive cracks as it gave us something to say was positive about the club when actually none were ever going to take us to where we are now.

Lets see in 5 - 10 years what happens with the new set up.

I think it is pointless to argue with you. Micah has numerous international cap and a key cog in our championship winning year. Sturridge is a fantastic player and the best striker in England. Johnson was his own worst enemy but undoubtedly talented. So three players papering over the cracks. That is not bad in the last couple of years.

Numerous international cap you say, i not sure how many he got but lets be honest when he arrived on the scene in a bad city team he looked to have potential because he could run, was strong and willing to put himself about. Since then he has not progressed and was only given a chance with England as Neville was on a downward curve.

I think you meant Sturridge is the best English striker which when you on your own is not difficult. He would not have got a game during the Shearer, Sherringham, Fowler, Wright, Cole, Ferdinand era for England.

As for couple of years it must be near 6 to 8 years since the lads of those lads made their debut.

Different opinions, I not here to argue.

 

[malg]

You cannot, under any circumstances, expect to see value from a youth system put in place slowly over a five year period, overnight. It's a stupid mindset to have. Look at the rags and their much vaunted youth system. How many of their current first team squad come from it?

I've said for years that someone should pose questions about their youth system. They had the same manager for 25 years, who had absolute authority inside the club, and they played the same way for those 25 years (and let's be honest here, he wasn't shy in giving his youth players a go). This was a club who probably should have been able to field a first team that was full of their own talent. However, it wasn't. In actual fact the Shower of 92 is the exception that proves the rule - you just get lucky.

I remember the reports years ago, when clubs were going to Ajax to copy their system (including the Rags). Well it's decades since, and no one has managed to replicate the Ajax success in producing youth. I also heard a bloke on 5Live saying that the FA sent him to have a look at the Belgium system to see what they were doing given their glut of decent talent. He spoke with one of their youth coaches, and the bloke said they hadn't done anything different at all, they just got lucky with a group of players who came through at the same time.

I must admit that I'm disappointed that we haven't got one single product of our youth system in our team. It was a huge disappointment that we couldn't bring ourselves (as Wenger does) to field a predominantly youth team for the Capital One Cup.

We can spend as much as we like, but it'll come down to large dose of luck, and a manager willing to give them a chance (!).

 

[BillyShears]

You cannot, under any circumstances, expect to see value from a youth system put in place slowly over a five year period, overnight. It's a stupid mindset to have. Look at the rags and their much vaunted youth system. How many of their current first team squad come from it?

I've said for years that someone should pose questions about their youth system. They had the same manager for 25 years, who had absolute authority inside the club, and they played the same way for those 25 years (and let's be honest here, he wasn't shy in giving his youth players a go). This was a club who probably should have been able to field a first team that was full of their own talent. However, it wasn't. In actual fact the Shower of 92 is the exception that proves the rule - you just get lucky.

I remember the reports years ago, when clubs were going to Ajax to copy their system (including the Rags). Well it's decades since, and no one has managed to replicate the Ajax success in producing youth. I also heard a bloke on 5Live saying that the FA sent him to have a look at the Belgium system to see what they were doing given their glut of decent talent. He spoke with one of their youth coaches, and the bloke said they hadn't done anything different at all, they just got lucky with a group of players who came through at the same time.

I must admit that I'm disappointed that we haven't got one single product of our youth system in our team. It was a huge disappointment that we couldn't bring ourselves (as Wenger does) to field a predominantly youth team for the Capital One Cup.

We can spend as much as we like, but it'll come down to large dose of luck, and a manager willing to give them a chance (!).

I agree with all that. Especially about the rags, and that extends to the golden Barca generation, probably this generation of Bayern players too. I think that comes around once every 20 years IF you have a system up and running which is inclusive.

Our youth system is in it's infancy in that we are trying to produce technically adept and adaptable players. This is different from when Jim Cassel was in charge. The infrastructure is different, the coaching methods are different, what is important for the players to learn is different.

The new structure needs time and the new players need space to develop away from the first team. The reason for that is simply blooding kids for the sake of it can be hugely counterproductive if the kids aren't ready. One humbling at first team level can have a detrimental effect as much as a good showing can have a positive effect. In that sense we have to trust the judgment of the people in charge to know when a player is ready to make that step.

I was equally disappointed with the fact we didn't use the league cup this season to field the best players from our youth teams. I guess in a way people would argue it was devaluing a cup we won last season, and would it have been a good thing had they lost to Newcastle? I don't know but I think that competition for me is the right one to stick the cream of the youth crop in and see how they fare.

Sadly not being in England I don't get to see the EDS and youth teams regularly, which is a shame because I know there's a few lads who are very highly rated. I'm confident in the next two/three years we will see at least one of them step up to the first team.

 

[supercity88]

Anyone who thinks our academy has regressed is being extremely short sighted. Michael Johnson? We didn't handle him very well did we. Didn't give him the best guidance off the field... Micah? Yes he was fantastic and yes he played for England. Have a look at how many right backs England have fielded in recent times... and their quality (or lack of it). He was played for his attacking talent more than defensive, I don't think anyone in their right mind could say Micah was an International quality defender. He did the attacking things really well but he never defended to the level we required. Sturridge again, too big for his boots and has only recently gone on to do anything. His International competition is Danny Welbeck and Ricky Lambert.

Our academy has totally transformed the coaching and facilities. We are aiming to develop kids on and off the pitch so that they learn key skills and don't drive their cars when drunk or set fire to their own houses whilst drunk before a game. In terms of technique we are giving them the basic talent and in terms of improvements look at how many England callups we get at youth level. Give it a few years and we will have players that can come into our squad and make a difference. It's very difficult for our academy players to come into our first team now with the level of players we have bought. But it will happen.