Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

[meldrew]

Who's to blame?

Not a single player purchased since Aguero should be anywhere near our first team, not nice to read but definetly has some truth in it.

After yesterday's appalling performance it's time we faced the facts the club has not really progressed since the 2011/12 title win. It's down to a number of factor's the main one, I truly believe is FFP.

As a squad we have now been found out, players are getting older and the other teams squads around us will shortly been passing us by. We've got rid of so many quality players such as Tevez, De Jong, Barry etc and replaced them with players who are more or less downgrades on the above mentioned players.

I understand it's hard for our owners due to the restrictions but a lot of blame can be based on the recruitment of the players and more needs to be done this summer.

You have Chelsea signing a £40m contract with Yokohama and United with Adidas at £40+ a season and whilst we are getting deals like coffee suppliers and bridge contracts we seem to be lagging behind.

Last season was no doubt a great season and if it was'nt for the poor form of teams around us we would have been nowhere near the top due to our poor start. Pellegrini seemed to adapt quickly last season but this year some of his choices have been baffling to say the least.

There nmeeds to be a shake up at the club as it's affecting us on and off the pitch, hopefully FFP will not penalise us this year and we can start to rebuild our squad with young, ambitious players and start to the lay the foundation for the seasons coming.

 

[TueartsOHK]

Where I disagree is that i don't believe that every signing he has made has improved the squad. If that's part of his job then in my opinion he hasn't done this well - even considering the confines of our budget. I realise we can't blow millions like we used to but the fact remains we (under Txiki) haven't bought well in the market

Mangala isn't our worst centre back, Sagna is better than Richards who wanted to go and Fernando looks to be better than Javi Garcia.

Every player improved the squad. People's problem is that they didn't improve what we think about as our first XI

I don't want to jugdge Mangala just yet but I should hope he isn't our worst centre back for 30+ million - even in his first season. Fernando better than Garcia? I'm not sure he is on this season's evidence. He's certaintly not a patch on previous defensive midfielders we've had.

Go back to the previoius window though - 2 of the players look like they are on the way out of the club and the other two have declined this season. Though I agree with a lot of your post Damocles I don't share your positivity in our transfer dealings.

 

[Damocles]

Re: Who's to blame?

You have Chelsea signing a £40m contract with Yokohama and United with Adidas at £40+ a season and whilst we are getting deals like coffee suppliers and bridge contracts we seem to be lagging behind..

The contracts for our major deals comparable to Adidas/United and Yokohama/Chelsea aren't up for renewal yet. What would you like us to do?

And those mini-deals are a good reason why we are one of the most commercially successful clubs in the world

 

[casualdeyna]

But to take that line of logic one step further would mean that lay people would never question the authority and decision making of experts in any profession.

That's to reduce the argument to an absurd conclusion. People can question any authority and decision making in any profession. They should just presume competence of somebody who is an expert in the field that they aren't as their starting point.

What football fans do is the equivalent of going to a Doctor, seeing their diagnosis and presuming that because you watch a lot or ER or House then he is wrong and you've actually got Rhino Virus or Lupus or something.

But if you go to your doctor with a pain in the foot and he said it was a wisdom tooth you would think "this man doesn't know what he is doing" and go somewhere else. Just because someone is qualified doesn't make them competent.

I actually like Pellegrini, he won a double in his first year and no City manager in my liftime has done that, let alone in his first season, which is why I'm trying to get at the point why are we making such masic mistakes, Gary Neville said same thing all second half, I've been told similar on MOTD, so it isn't as if I'm just making this stuff up, it is plain for all to see, I don't need UEFA badges to see we aren't overly concerned with defensive shape.

If it is Pellegrini making that decision I can only presume he thinks we will outplay the oppostion without need to "stop them playing", my question is around whether Pellegrini is told how to play from the boardroom and if that has anything to do with us allowing Liverpool to totally by-pass our midfield.

 

[franksinatra]

Someone is doing a good impression of a person who doesn't understand the basics of football, you would think the amount of teams Pellegrini has managed he should understand the basics, but if it is coming from the board room what is the point of having a manger, just get them to pick the team!

There is a problem here with how we discuss football.

It is a professional sport that involves rather a lot of decision making and training. Manuel Pellegrini is somebody who has not only trained in this discipline, but he has taken one the incredibly small number of top jobs in an ultra-competitive industry.

It is not a stretch to presume that he probably knows more about football, football tactics and how to win games than anybody on here. This however is never considered in people's thought processes. So when they feel that they have identified a problem, they are only seeing an overly simplistic view of the problem nor are they considering how addressing this problem will affect other areas of the game. The reason City pay Manuel Pellegrini several million pounds a year is because his judgement is better than ours and he knows more than we do.

That should be your starting point to any discussion of tactics and formations. You should be attempting to understand what he saw and why he played that way. You should also not attach things onto him that he could have no possible control over such as whether a particularly player decided to press his man or not.

Unfortunately one of the problems on here and in football fans in general is that they presume incompetence of the professionals and competence of the amateurs, then cannot fathom why the professionals haven't done something which they would have done.

Of course that is very true but I suppose what is interesting about the tactics employed by Pellers is, similar to the amateur fan, the shape of the team and the formation employed, in certain matches, is also being heavily criticised by professionals. Some who have spent a similar amount of time within the professional game and in some instances are more decorated and experienced in relation to trophies won, particularly within the context of the Premiership.

In relation to our set I can see the cause and effect of changing from a 4-4-2 to a 4-2-3-1 would result in better control of the midfield area but could come at a cost offensively as we would lose a 'natural' goalscorer and our midfielders of Silva, Nasri, Navas/Milner are not necessarily prolific scorers. So you can see the value of playing 4-4-2 against the likes of Newcastle where the opposition is likely to defend deep allowing ourselves to dominate midfield. But is the same formation suitable for Barcelona/Liverpool away etc?

Interesting the point highlighted is pretty much the main criticism labelled at Pellers by professionals within the game. The one size fits all approach. So I think it is fair fans, even without the professional knowledge, can criticise a professional as the contrast between Pellers tactics or those professionals criticising him highlights professionals are fallible.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Fernando is an upgrade on no one.

We have seen no evidence that Sagna is an upgrade on anyone as he has hardly played which given the form of Zabaleta can only mean that Pellegrini is not liking what he is seeing from him.

So far Mangala is a slight upgrade on Lescott and for £35m he should be!

Caballero is no better than Pantilimon.

Time will tell on Bony.

He may have done ok in summer 13 but this year he has failed.

 

[blueinsa]

The vast majority venting anger on the boards over the last few days would no doubt be laughing off such small blips, should they be happening at any other club as nothing to worry about and saying they are still in a fantastic position.

We are emotionally involved here and whilst its understandable to have a certain amount of knee jerk reaction due to that tie, there comes a point to sit back and just think before going off half cocked.

Season is not over yet and even if we don't win the league or CL, we will be back challenging again next year and that's a guarantee.

 

[chris85mcfc]

The vast majority venting anger on the boards over the last few days would no doubt be laughing off such small blips, should they be happening at any other club as nothing to worry about and saying they are still in a fantastic position.

We are emotionally involved here and whilst its understandable to have a certain amount of knee jerk reaction due to that tie, there comes a point to sit back and just think before going off half cocked.

Season is not over yet and even if we don't win the league or CL, we will be back challenging again next year and that's a guarantee.

I'm not sure its knee jerk as such fella.

This is no dig at anyone but their have been people questioning Txiki and Pellegrini all season. To me it just seems like more and more people are becoming wise to the situation.

 

[blueinsa]

The vast majority venting anger on the boards over the last few days would no doubt be laughing off such small blips, should they be happening at any other club as nothing to worry about and saying they are still in a fantastic position.

We are emotionally involved here and whilst its understandable to have a certain amount of knee jerk reaction due to that tie, there comes a point to sit back and just think before going off half cocked.

Season is not over yet and even if we don't win the league or CL, we will be back challenging again next year and that's a guarantee.

I'm not sure its knee jerk as such fella.

This is no dig at anyone but their have been people questioning Txiki and Pellegrini all season. To me it just seems like more and more people are becoming wise to the situation.

Yet Txiki and Pellegrini won a league and cup double just last season.

Chelsea and Mourinho won fuck all last year yet all of a sudden they are the epitome of everything perfect in the world of football and our club is an example of everything being done wrong?

Its knee jerk mate.

This season is not over yet.

 

[Danamy]

The vast majority venting anger on the boards over the last few days would no doubt be laughing off such small blips, should they be happening at any other club as nothing to worry about and saying they are still in a fantastic position.

We are emotionally involved here and whilst its understandable to have a certain amount of knee jerk reaction due to that tie, there comes a point to sit back and just think before going off half cocked.

Season is not over yet and even if we don't win the league or CL, we will be back challenging again next year and that's a guarantee.

I'm not sure its knee jerk as such fella.

This is no dig at anyone but their have been people questioning Txiki and Pellegrini all season. To me it just seems like more and more people are becoming wise to the situation.

Yet Txiki and Pellegrini won a league and cup double just last season.

Chelsea and Mourinho won fuck all last year yet all of a sudden they are the epitome of everything perfect in the world of football and our club is an example of everything being done wrong?

Its knee jerk mate.

This season is not over yet.

Welcome to the fickle world of being a football supporter, it was so much easier when we were shit