FFP - 21 Man Squad Restriction & Homegrown Quota

[yamcha]

I'm not sure this helps clarify your situation, but there's this link here: http://www.uefa.com/news/newsid=943393.html

More importantly,

From 2008/09, clubs in the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League required a minimum of eight homegrown players in a squad limited to 25. These rules are also in force in several national leagues across Europe.

• UEFA introduced the rule in three phases:
Season 2006/07: minimum of four homegrown players in 25-man squad
Season 2007/08: minimum of six homegrown players in 25-man squad
Season 2008/09: minimum of eight homegrown players in 25-man squad

• Clubs have no obligation to put a certain number of homegrown players on the field of play, or on the matchsheet. They are entirely free in their team and matchday squad selection.

But in other news, Atalanta fans threw bananas onto the pitch in a match vs AC Milan. Also reports a knife was thrown as well. What's the odds they escape a 60m euro fine? UEFA are a joke...

No, it doesn't help.

We need a statement from the club as soon as possible to clarify this matter.

 

[BringBackSwales]

I'm not sure this helps clarify your situation, but there's this link here: http://www.uefa.com/news/newsid=943393.html

More importantly,

From 2008/09, clubs in the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League required a minimum of eight homegrown players in a squad limited to 25. These rules are also in force in several national leagues across Europe.

• UEFA introduced the rule in three phases:
Season 2006/07: minimum of four homegrown players in 25-man squad
Season 2007/08: minimum of six homegrown players in 25-man squad
Season 2008/09: minimum of eight homegrown players in 25-man squad

• Clubs have no obligation to put a certain number of homegrown players on the field of play, or on the matchsheet. They are entirely free in their team and matchday squad selection.

But in other news, Atalanta fans threw bananas onto the pitch in a match vs AC Milan. Also reports a knife was thrown as well. What's the odds they escape a 60m euro fine? UEFA are a joke...

But the point is that the rules are not clear what happens when a club's squad is limited to 21 players; at the very least it is complicated/confusing, albeit in an insulting bollocks kind of a way

 

[aguero93:20]

If Atalanta ever actually got into Europe, I'm sure UEFA would find it within themselves to fine them £16,700.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

The bold bit is wrong. The annex covers the cases where clubs can't register 8 HG players and prescribes the total squad limit depending on how many are missing. So for the examples you give, the club would have no more than 4 HG players on the books and therefore they have to have a 21 man squad instead of 25. There is nothing in the rules suggesting that if you have a 21 man squad instead of 25 then you can register fewer HG players.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be delighted if we could register 17+4, but the rules don't show that that's the case at all.

You start off with 17 free places, for players of any nationality.

Then you add the 8 homegrown. NOT starting with 8 & adding 17.

Do you understand this ?

If you want to add to the 17, they have to be home grown, but you start off with 17 places, which you could fill with uk players if you wanted to. Therefore, if UEFA change that, they are punishing the overseas players for City 'failing' ffp. The may have decided that is not fair.

If UEFA are going to limit the 17, then they have to change the rule. They may well do that, but they may also not do it & leave it as it is, with 17 free places. Then 4 homegrown. There is no reason to predict that they have limited the 17. We will just have to wait & see what they decided.

I'm with you on this although I can see where the 13+8 er's are coming from. I'm basing my hopes on 17+4 from Annex VIII of the rules.
We'll just have to all wait and see, sooner or later someone official has to clarify it (the daily fail and the ssn news ticker doesn't count).

My own take on this is that the punishment is designed to stop us spending and instead to develop from within, in which case it will be safest to assume 13+8 until the bigwigs put it in print.

 

[[MU]Prodigy]

But the point is that the rules are not clear what happens when a club's squad is limited to 21 players; at the very least it is complicated/confusing, albeit in an insulting bollocks kind of a way

Ah I see what you mean. Without wanting to be the bearer of bad news, I don't think it'd be a reduction in the HG player allowance - wouldn't be much of a punishment and I'd imagine UEFA would have outlined that.

Either way, it'd be for one season, I imagine you'll be perfectly fine FFP-wise next season.

 

[[MU]Prodigy]

If Atalanta ever actually got into Europe, I'm sure UEFA would find it within themselves to fine them £16,700.

Haha I just find a £49 million fine from UEFA steep for FFP infringement when every worldwide governing association (incl UEFA) are giving out peanut fines to clubs for racism. Definitely needs to be some sort of benchmark set. I'd love to see a set fine of 10m euros and partial stadium closures as entry level punishments in European competitions. At least then Platini could line his pockets further in a more reasonable way.

 

[BringBackSwales]

But the point is that the rules are not clear what happens when a club's squad is limited to 21 players; at the very least it is complicated/confusing, albeit in an insulting bollocks kind of a way

Ah I see what you mean. Without wanting to be the bearer of bad news, I don't think it'd be a reduction in the HG player allowance - wouldn't be much of a punishment and I'd imagine UEFA would have outlined that.

Either way, it'd be for one season, I imagine you'll be perfectly fine FFP-wise next season.

but given the number of foreign players we have I would find it really surprising if the club had accepted the reduction to 21 if it meant a maximum of 13 "foreign players", so to me the options are (1) we are prepared to accept a maximum of 13 foreign players for the CL, and disappoint some established players and/or any "foreign" new signings or (2) the rules allow 17 out of 21 to be "foreign" or (3) we negotiated a special deal with uefa that 17 of the 21 could be "foreign" or (4) that we read the rules ourselves and interpreted it as being 17+4 and we were right or (5) that we read the rules ourselves and interpreted it as being 17+4 and we were wrong. Apparently re (5) is insulting bollocks so can't be right, re (1) I would be amazed if we agreed to, so let's hope it is (2), (3) or (4)

 

[Chippy_boy]

I'm with you on this although I can see where the 13+8 er's are coming from. I'm basing my hopes on 17+4 from Annex VIII of the rules.
We'll just have to all wait and see, sooner or later someone official has to clarify it (the daily fail and the ssn news ticker doesn't count).

He's completely wrong. Nowhere in the rules does it say anything about 17.. Because 17 is not the starting point, and if it was it would say so.

In the examples at the back, it shows free 17 plus up to 8 additional, simply based on the fact the your are allowed a total of 25 of which 8 must be homegrown, so the result is 17 free.

If you start with 21 in total, unless UEFA have said you can have less than 8 homegrown - and they haven't or we would have heard about it - then the number of free players is 13.

Read it and weep.

Annex VIII would disagree and as it happens there is a piece on setanta's website today that states we only need 4 home grown players. Of course we don't even have to have them but they definitely believe it's 4 not 8. And no, I don't know where they get their information.

Honestly, no it doesn't. The rules simply say you can register up to 25 players of which 8 have to be "locally trained" (aka home grown). With 25 players and 8 home grown, that means 17 free players.

There's nothing in Annex VIII that gives any indication you can have 17 free players if you have a total List A of less than 25. This is clear because all the examples show a total "potential List A" of 25 players. There are no examples where the "potential List A" is less than 25.

Critically - and this is a key point - nowhere does it say you can have 17 free players. The fact you can have 17 with a total "List A" (i.e. squad) size of 25 is simply a calculation of 25 minus 8. If you can only have 21 in total, the the calculation must be 21 minus 8.

 

[George Hannah]

For information - the starting point is our UEFA 2013/14 squad - don't confuse this with our PL squad. There need to be 8 locally trained players in the 25, 4 of whom should be club trained (with the club for 36 months before they are 21) B List players are marked with an asterisk.

[

On the A list you will note we have 8 locally trained players - Richards, Boyata & Johansen who are club trained and Hart, Clichy, Lescott, Milner and Rodwell who are association trained. The other 16 players on the A list are foreign trained. A total of 24. Before the sanctions we could have exchanged an association trained player for another foreign trained player and we have one vacancy for a club trained player aged over 21 which the club chose not to fill with Guidetti or Nimely.

 

[NMB]

Having studied the UEFA rules for some time I honestly do not think that the rule makers thought about the situation that City and PSG find themselves in when they wrote the rules. If they had they would have included the scenario of "squad restricted by sanction to 24/23/22 etc" in the table at the back. I would like to think, therefore, that the club, during the two weeks of negotiation, would have clarified this hitherto unique situation and would know exactly how many players from each group will be allowable. The bullishness of the club statement leads me to believe that, assuming that UEFA and City did clarify the point, City have reason to believe that they will be allowed 17 free players. If we go ahead and sign 3 more foreign players in the next few weeks I would take that as a sign that this is the case.