FFP - 21 Man Squad Restriction & Homegrown Quota

[chris85mcfc]

If that were the case then this wouldn't actually help us out at all with the limit on foreign players. If we need to add 4 club trained players then that leaves a further 17 positions, 1 of which must be country trained. We've got Hart, Milner and Clichy to add, so that leaves us with 14 foreign players instead of 13, hardly a help at all given our current squad makeup, and our rumoured targets.

I am confused now; I thought 16 was 16, however the other 5 is comprised? How does 16 become 14?

Basically if we must name 4 club trained players then that means Hart, Milner and Clichy can't be counted in that number. So, remove the 4 club trained players from the equation and we have a remaining squad of 17 players. 1 of those, in PB's example above, must be "association trained" i.e. in the country but not necessarily at City. Lets say we use Hart to fill that position. That leaves us 16, which can be made up of anyone we like. However, as well as our current "foreign" contingent, we've now got Milner and Clichy who we haven't been able to use in the "homegrown" quota of 5 players (as the stipulation that 4 of the 5 had to be club trained prevented this). Look below for example:-

Prestwich Blue's example

16 + 5 (where 4 of the 5 must be Club trained (CT) and 1 can be club trained or Association trained (AT). The remaining 16 can be foreign (FR))

CT - Lopes
CT - Rekik
CT - Richards
CT - Huws

AT - Hart

FR - Kompany
FR - Zabaleta
FR - Demichelis
FR - Toure
FR - Kolarov
FR - Fernandinho
FR - Garcia
FR - Nasri
FR - Silva
FR - Navas
FR - Negredo
FR - Jovetic
FR - Dzeko
FR - Aguero
FR - Clichy
FR - Pantilimon

That's the full squad, no place for Rodwell, no place for Milner, no place for any new signings at all.

Aguero93:20's example

16 + 5 (where 1 of the 5 must be Club trained (CT) and 4 can be club trained or Association trained (AT). The remaining 16 can be foreign (FR))

CT - Richards

AT - Hart
AT - Milner
AT - Clichy
AT - Rodwell

FR - Kompany
FR - Zabaleta
FR - Demichelis
FR - Toure
FR - Kolarov
FR - Fernandinho
FR - Garcia
FR - Nasri
FR - Silva
FR - Navas
FR - Negredo
FR - Jovetic
FR - Dzeko
FR - Aguero
FR - Pantilimon
FR -

That's the full squad, no-one misses out, and we've even got a free place for any new signings.

As you can see, the difference is, in example 1 we are forced to include Lopes, Rekik and Huws as A List players and exclude Rodwell and Milner altogether. In example 2 we can include Rodwell, and Milner, and have a free squad spot, and we can simply add Lopes, Rekik and Huws to our B List anyway and they'd still be eligible for the squad.

If the above mathematics are correct, then you've nailed that post

I can see one or two of your foreign list being sold in the summer

If there are no surprise sales then id hazard a guess that Pantilimon and Garcia may miss out on the CL providing we sign a top draw CB and CM

 

[aguero93:20]

We could use Johansen as the club trained second keeper, meaning we could leave Pantilimon (who's probably going anyway) out. Or go for Kieren Westwood who would class as club trained I think, having been with us three seasons while under 21.

Westwood is club-trained, he left when he was 20 but was in our academy. Weaver another option if we need someone for a year, he's a free agent.

 

[Matty]

I am confused now; I thought 16 was 16, however the other 5 is comprised? How does 16 become 14?

Basically if we must name 4 club trained players then that means Hart, Milner and Clichy can't be counted in that number. So, remove the 4 club trained players from the equation and we have a remaining squad of 17 players. 1 of those, in PB's example above, must be "association trained" i.e. in the country but not necessarily at City. Lets say we use Hart to fill that position. That leaves us 16, which can be made up of anyone we like. However, as well as our current "foreign" contingent, we've now got Milner and Clichy who we haven't been able to use in the "homegrown" quota of 5 players (as the stipulation that 4 of the 5 had to be club trained prevented this). Look below for example:-

Prestwich Blue's example

16 + 5 (where 4 of the 5 must be Club trained (CT) and 1 can be club trained or Association trained (AT). The remaining 16 can be foreign (FR))

CT - Lopes
CT - Rekik
CT - Richards
CT - Huws

AT - Hart

FR - Kompany
FR - Zabaleta
FR - Demichelis
FR - Toure
FR - Kolarov
FR - Fernandinho
FR - Garcia
FR - Nasri
FR - Silva
FR - Navas
FR - Negredo
FR - Jovetic
FR - Dzeko
FR - Aguero
FR - Clichy
FR - Pantilimon

That's the full squad, no place for Rodwell, no place for Milner, no place for any new signings at all.

Aguero93:20's example

16 + 5 (where 1 of the 5 must be Club trained (CT) and 4 can be club trained or Association trained (AT). The remaining 16 can be foreign (FR))

CT - Richards

AT - Hart
AT - Milner
AT - Clichy
AT - Rodwell

FR - Kompany
FR - Zabaleta
FR - Demichelis
FR - Toure
FR - Kolarov
FR - Fernandinho
FR - Garcia
FR - Nasri
FR - Silva
FR - Navas
FR - Negredo
FR - Jovetic
FR - Dzeko
FR - Aguero
FR - Pantilimon
FR -

That's the full squad, no-one misses out, and we've even got a free place for any new signings.

As you can see, the difference is, in example 1 we are forced to include Lopes, Rekik and Huws as A List players and exclude Rodwell and Milner altogether. In example 2 we can include Rodwell, and Milner, and have a free squad spot, and we can simply add Lopes, Rekik and Huws to our B List anyway and they'd still be eligible for the squad.

If the above mathematics are correct, then you've nailed that post

I can see one or two of your foreign list being sold in the summer

If there are no surprise sales then id hazard a guess that Pantilimon and Garcia may miss out on the CL providing we sign a top draw CB and CM

Yeah, I was just using our current squad as an example. I suspect Richards, Rodwell, Pantillimon and Garcia may well all leave. We'd need to find another CT and another AT in that instance, but you could add Lopes as the CT, and possibly a backup keeper who qualifies as AT (whether it's Richard Wright still or someone else is open to debate), but it would leave you with 3 FR positions (Pantillimon's, Garcia's and the 1 already left free) to fill with new signings, such as Sagna, Mangala and Fernando perhaps?

Obviously this is in Aguero93:20's example. In Prestwich Blues one we'd need to find a far more obscure CT player than Lopes, possibly Johansen as he suggests (as we'd need to have a minimum of 2 keepers). Rodwell didn't make the cut anyway so him leaving doesn't affect it. The removal of Garcia & Pantillimon would only open up 2 FR slots, so if we did buy Sagna, Mangala and Fernando we'd only be able to add 2 unless we removed someone else from the squad, potentially 1 of the 4 strikers (Jovetic or Negredo most likely).

This just emphasises the issues we'll have even more acutely.

 

[adrianr]

Basically if we must name 4 club trained players then that means Hart, Milner and Clichy can't be counted in that number. So, remove the 4 club trained players from the equation and we have a remaining squad of 17 players. 1 of those, in PB's example above, must be "association trained" i.e. in the country but not necessarily at City. Lets say we use Hart to fill that position. That leaves us 16, which can be made up of anyone we like. However, as well as our current "foreign" contingent, we've now got Milner and Clichy who we haven't been able to use in the "homegrown" quota of 5 players (as the stipulation that 4 of the 5 had to be club trained prevented this). Look below for example:-

Prestwich Blue's example

16 + 5 (where 4 of the 5 must be Club trained (CT) and 1 can be club trained or Association trained (AT). The remaining 16 can be foreign (FR))

CT - Lopes
CT - Rekik
CT - Richards
CT - Huws

AT - Hart

FR - Kompany
FR - Zabaleta
FR - Demichelis
FR - Toure
FR - Kolarov
FR - Fernandinho
FR - Garcia
FR - Nasri
FR - Silva
FR - Navas
FR - Negredo
FR - Jovetic
FR - Dzeko
FR - Aguero
FR - Clichy
FR - Pantilimon

That's the full squad, no place for Rodwell, no place for Milner, no place for any new signings at all.

Aguero93:20's example

16 + 5 (where 1 of the 5 must be Club trained (CT) and 4 can be club trained or Association trained (AT). The remaining 16 can be foreign (FR))

CT - Richards

AT - Hart
AT - Milner
AT - Clichy
AT - Rodwell

FR - Kompany
FR - Zabaleta
FR - Demichelis
FR - Toure
FR - Kolarov
FR - Fernandinho
FR - Garcia
FR - Nasri
FR - Silva
FR - Navas
FR - Negredo
FR - Jovetic
FR - Dzeko
FR - Aguero
FR - Pantilimon
FR -

That's the full squad, no-one misses out, and we've even got a free place for any new signings.

As you can see, the difference is, in example 1 we are forced to include Lopes, Rekik and Huws as A List players and exclude Rodwell and Milner altogether. In example 2 we can include Rodwell, and Milner, and have a free squad spot, and we can simply add Lopes, Rekik and Huws to our B List anyway and they'd still be eligible for the squad.

If the above mathematics are correct, then you've nailed that post

I can see one or two of your foreign list being sold in the summer

If there are no surprise sales then id hazard a guess that Pantilimon and Garcia may miss out on the CL providing we sign a top draw CB and CM

Yeah, I was just using our current squad as an example. I suspect Richards, Rodwell, Pantillimon and Garcia may well all leave. We'd need to find another CT and another AT in that instance, but you could add Lopes as the CT, and possibly a backup keeper who qualifies as AT (whether it's Richard Wright still or someone else is open to debate), but it would leave you with 3 FR positions (Pantillimon's, Garcia's and the 1 already left free) to fill with new signings, such as Sagna, Mangala and Fernando perhaps?

Obviously this is in Aguero93:20's example. In Prestwich Blues one we'd need to find a far more obscure CT player than Lopes, possibly Johansen as he suggests (as we'd need to have a minimum of 2 keepers). Rodwell didn't make the cut anyway so him leaving doesn't affect it. The removal of Garcia & Pantillimon would only open up 2 FR slots, so if we did buy Sagna, Mangala and Fernando we'd only be able to add 2 unless we removed someone else from the squad, potentially 1 of the 4 strikers (Jovetic or Negredo most likely).

This just emphasises the issues we'll have even more acutely.

It's screaming 'Buy Fabregas' to me!! ;)

 

[Matty]

If the above mathematics are correct, then you've nailed that post

I can see one or two of your foreign list being sold in the summer

If there are no surprise sales then id hazard a guess that Pantilimon and Garcia may miss out on the CL providing we sign a top draw CB and CM

Yeah, I was just using our current squad as an example. I suspect Richards, Rodwell, Pantillimon and Garcia may well all leave. We'd need to find another CT and another AT in that instance, but you could add Lopes as the CT, and possibly a backup keeper who qualifies as AT (whether it's Richard Wright still or someone else is open to debate), but it would leave you with 3 FR positions (Pantillimon's, Garcia's and the 1 already left free) to fill with new signings, such as Sagna, Mangala and Fernando perhaps?

Obviously this is in Aguero93:20's example. In Prestwich Blues one we'd need to find a far more obscure CT player than Lopes, possibly Johansen as he suggests (as we'd need to have a minimum of 2 keepers). Rodwell didn't make the cut anyway so him leaving doesn't affect it. The removal of Garcia & Pantillimon would only open up 2 FR slots, so if we did buy Sagna, Mangala and Fernando we'd only be able to add 2 unless we removed someone else from the squad, potentially 1 of the 4 strikers (Jovetic or Negredo most likely).

This just emphasises the issues we'll have even more acutely.

It's screaming 'Buy Fabregas' to me!! ;)

Our 60m euro/£49m net spend might not be screaming that so much! The sales of the 4 players I mentioned won't be bringing in a huge amount, maybe £20m or so, that pushes us up to somewhere in the region of £70m to spend. Fabregas will probably by Ozil type priced, so £40m - £45m, that would only leave £25m - £30m left over, Mangala could well cost all of that on his own.

 

[Rolee]

We could use Johansen as the club trained second keeper, meaning we could leave Pantilimon (who's probably going anyway) out. Or go for Kieren Westwood who would class as club trained I think, having been with us three seasons while under 21.

Westwood is club-trained, he left when he was 20 but was in our academy. Weaver another option if we need someone for a year, he's a free agent.

I don't think Weaver is club-trained, if I've done my maths correctly he joined us 3 months after his 18th birthday.

 

[Blue Haze]

The sanctions don't look bad at all, if true. We wouldn't have to change much of anything from last season.

 

[Matty]

We could use Johansen as the club trained second keeper, meaning we could leave Pantilimon (who's probably going anyway) out. Or go for Kieren Westwood who would class as club trained I think, having been with us three seasons while under 21.

Westwood is club-trained, he left when he was 20 but was in our academy. Weaver another option if we need someone for a year, he's a free agent.

I don't think Weaver is club-trained, if I've done my maths correctly he joined us 3 months after his 18th birthday.

And that's why "home grown" is such a bollocks UEFA requirement. One player who has spent 2 years and 9 months at the club prior to being 21, and then a subsequent 7 years at the club doesn't owe his development to Manchester City, whereas another player, who left Manchester City aged 20, having never played for the club, or anyone else at first team level, and plied his trade in non-league football after this for a while, owes his development to Manchester City!

 

[Centurions]

If a club decided to submit a squad of 21 (without sanctions) then you're allowed 17 FT plus either 4 CT or 4 AT (or any combination). There's no requirement for any CT players at all. Of course our situation is unique since we know (unless UEFA come out with a different statement) that we're only allowed 16 FT. I would hazard a guess that we came up with a compromise of 1 CT & 4 AT (or any combination). Maybe...

 

[LoveCity]

Look at this discussion: <a class="postlink" href="https://twitter.com/sportingintel/status/469139896276647936" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://twitter.com/sportingintel/statu ... 6276647936</a>

UEFA actually told journalists 8 (4+4) yet City are working on the assumption of 5 so have been told otherwise.

UEFA are a joke of an organisation.