Football Leaks/Der Spiegel articles

[johnnytapia]

It is ridiculous. I know David Conn isn’t a practicing Jew and I don’t think Hattenstone is either. We have a very significant Jewish fan base & no one I know or have heard of has boycotted City because of the owners.

practising

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

practising

You're quite right. Thank you. I always thought the 's' was the American spelling but it's the other way round for the verb.

That's the first worthwhile reply you've ever made to one of my posts. ;-)

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

I always think it's best to leave religion out of City. We're a welcoming, inclusive club and we can and do welcome all religious beliefs and none. If the Jewish followers of MCFC - and we've had a significant number since the late 1890s - (I have a newspaper report saying that the Jewish population of Manchester has chosen to support City from about 1900 - as if the entire Jewish population decided en masse to support City but that was what the article implied) - can accept Bert Trautmann (who was ranked second highest level of Nazi when he was brought to UK and assessed by the army!) then they'll accept our current owners too.

There are some people - Colin Shindler is a possibly an example - whose views may be swayed by religion, politics etc. but I'd hope none of the others allow religion to affect their judgement.

My graddad who was a City Season Ticket Holder after the war before moving back to Old Trafford with united(the less said about that the better!)always maintained that Trautmann\s signing had a major impact on it's Jewish support. To be clear that's not an attack on them, frankly I would have been stunned if it hadn't

 

[Gary James]

My graddad who was a City Season Ticket Holder after the war before moving back to Old Trafford with united(the less said about that the better!)always maintained that Trautmann\s signing had a major impact on it's Jewish support. To be clear that's not an attack on them, frankly I would have been stunned if it hadn't

It's an interesting topic and I wish we could prove one way or another. The club and football back then never collected data on ethnicity, religion, gender etc. so it's impossible to prove but crowds only seem to have varied based on relegation/promotion in the years that followed Bert's arrival not on his selection. In fact they initially increased (there's a myth out there about fans boycotting games but Bert's home debut was 7,000 up on the previous attendance - v Arsenal. Bert's home debut was v Birmingham). City had been struggling that season (already P17 W3 D6 L8 by the time Bert first appeared at Maine Rd) and were eventually relegated but the crowds increased with Bert in the team. The average for the 8 home games played pre-Bert was about 34,500, after Bert the season's eventual average attendance was 39,381 (an increase on the previous season's average). In Div 2 the next season crowds dropped and for the majority of clubs crowds did drop in the years after 1949 (the first few seasons after the war were major crowd-pulling seasons for most clubs).

After studying the crowd figures I honestly think that City's support was boosted by Bert more than any potential lost fan. Of course we'll never know how many were 'new' fans coming to see City and how many traditional fans had stayed away. It may well be that some groups did stay away and were replaced by others but we'll never be able to prove it of course.

 

[laserblue]

Bert Trautmann's debut for City was at Fulham where he faced a hostile reception from the home crowd when he took to the pitch and during the early stages of the game. However, following a superb performance (despite City losing 1-0), the same Fulham fans warmly applauded him at the end of the game.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I think these leaks will tarnish the perception of the club for a long time. It doesn’t matter what is true, what isn’t, and the extent to which what is true is simply us playing the game better than the others.

A vignette: some clown on the grauniad BTL incessantly and obsessively posts City bingo. One of them yesterday was along the lines of ‘disgraceful that a new oil club smashes our traditional clubs (I know I know), especially after the Der Spiegel leaks’.

Leaks. That is all they are. Nothing is proven. But that doesn’t matter.

Confirmation bias.

Why are you bothered what sad sacks like that think or believe?

 

[sheepskin_tearaway]

Why are you bothered what sad sacks like that think or believe?

I’m not.

 

[toffee balls]

Good stuff on delicate ground Gary. I know David Bernstein is jewish, were Smith, Douglas, Alexander, Swales and John Wardle/ Stephen Boler do you know?

I believe Swales was the only Jewish guy on that list.

Albert and Eric Alexander have very strong roots in the Isle of Man and are of Scottish descent.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I believe Swales was the only Jewish guy on that list.

Albert and Eric Alexander have very strong roots in the Isle of Man and are of Scottish descent.

Swales wasn't Jewish. What on earth gave you that idea? He met his wife at Church Sunday School.

Boler wasn't as far as I know.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Why are you bothered what sad sacks like that think or believe?

Then why quote them in the context of raising your concerns about how the club is and will be perceived?