Forget Recriminations, how do we sort this mess out?

I haven't read the entire 22 pages of this thread, but we do not have our full squad fit, with a couple of very talented players out who can make a difference. We are still gelling, and are no way yet the finished article, but we're still up in the right group of clubs and very much chasing our targets.

it is premature to start getting flustered, although like everyone I'm ruing the points lost and some less impressive performances - but we're getting there...

all I'll say at this juncture is that if we can beat ManUre we'll be getting back into our groove.

give it a little time; we can't become impatient.
 
"all I'll say at this juncture is that if we can beat ManUre we'll be getting back into our groove."

Love that word IF
 
Nelly's Left Foot said:
"all I'll say at this juncture is that if we can beat ManUre we'll be getting back into our groove."

Love that word IF

if the build up play doesn't pick up...hard to see it...but it's a derby so players should give their all, and more in that match...WBA match will be a nice preview of what has been going on in training and in that creative department after a couple of bleak displays
 
BillyShears said:
Personal opinion - people have had negative bullied out of them...

That's not to say they are right or wrong, but just that it's much easier to articulate 'i believe' than it is to articulate the opposite on Bluemoon.

Going back to what I said in my previous post though - I fear we're going to end the season competing with Spurs for 4th. No matter which way you cut it, that won't be progress. I am hoping/believing etc that that won't happen.

It works both ways and you know it. One defeat and the moaners are out in force calling for the do-gooders to explain what Mancini has done wrong whilst one win and the happy clappers are claiming title glory can be achieved. A draw is usually rounded upon as a terrible result because we've spent trillions.

On the pitch we're doing fine. The only concern I have and what I can't put my finger on is this transfer window. I just do not understand why we haven't strengthened when we still have Kolo, Barry, Milner, Vieira and Jo in and around the first team. In a team that as spent so much I don't think these players should ever start games on a regular basis (I know Jo and Vieira don't but they should never even be in the 16)
 
probably get some stick for this but here goes.

The most successful team over the last 15 years is the rags,they play a system that wins games,they play attacking football, if we want to be as successful as them we need to do the same,copy whatever they are doing(according to most on here we have better players).
 
Most games at St Andrews are bleak, and after the 1st half collision which cost us 2 players I think this thread is harsh in the extreme, particularly as we drew.
 
Marvin said:
Most games at St Andrews are bleak, and after the 1st half collision which cost us 2 players I think this thread is harsh in the extreme, particularly as we drew.

There has been a lot of shit written about this one game but that shouldn't surprise anyone. Birmingham is a very tough place to go and we're disappointed we didn't win after twice taking the lead. We should have had a penalty and on a pitch that just wasn't suited to us we played well at times and had Vieira not given away a silly penalty we'd all be talking about a brilliant away victory. Those are the margins we're dealing with.

There is concern about set-piece defending and giving away silly fouls but I'm sure Mancini will sort these out.
 
jay_mcfc said:
Marvin said:
Most games at St Andrews are bleak, and after the 1st half collision which cost us 2 players I think this thread is harsh in the extreme, particularly as we drew.

There has been a lot of shit written about this one game but that shouldn't surprise anyone. Birmingham is a very tough place to go and we're disappointed we didn't win after twice taking the lead. We should have had a penalty and on a pitch that just wasn't suited to us we played well at times and had Vieira not given away a silly penalty we'd all be talking about a brilliant away victory. Those are the margins we're dealing with.

There is concern about set-piece defending and giving away silly fouls but I'm sure Mancini will sort these out.

I think there are a few reasons why. There are some on here who would give the guy claiming to be Brazilian the freedom of Manchester, merely because he plays for City, because it's a joke he plays for City still, and thus because it's a joke, it actually becomes a literal joke, where it's fashionable and 'funny' to defend him on the basis of 'oh we have a song about him now'. And then there are others who if we conceed a single goal in any game, and far too critical. I sense, the truth is, there are a lot of genuine honest fans out there, and on Bluemoon, who deep down, know this season, has been up and down when put into context, yes (im sorry for those who fail to accept this point) how much money we have spent to improve on our overall league position at the end of the season, the way we have set up in some games, and the selection of one or two players in the squad over others.

The reason why some genuine critical thoughts have been brushed under the carpet for the majority of the season, is because we have remained in the top 3 mix throughout. Of course, I am giving Mancini credit for this, because I've acknowledged many times, particularly prior to xmas, he was working on developing us into a more resolute, disciplined side with a fear of losing. We were developing momentum, being able to play before teams and make a statement, and play after teams and still stay in the mix.

But there have been other concerns, sometimes the playing style being far too narrow against teams with a lack of pace at the back, against teams coming to park the bus, and the laws of average say, you can't continue to keep winning games, on a low 'clear cut' chance created ratio. We have had lots of possession, and lots of powder puff half chances in games, but only in a handful of games, have we really created 6 or 7 clinical clear cut chances. We have relied far too often on moments of individual quality. We need to score more team goals.

I sense, the two cup games away (with those who turned up to West Brom still remembering the way we threw away the opportunity to go further in that competition) have started to make people take a bit more notice of this 'momentum thing'. Because, of course we have been in the title mix, whether people liked to admit it of not. That's not arrogance. That's the truth. So fans are asking them, is there momentum at the moment, in terms of progression on the field of play, not just results, but performances, and player selection. And are we likely to do what we did after the Everton defeat (go on a 4 winning game run etc) or are we likely to do what all of those on hear who are shitting themselves daily about, and that is 'be typical city again'. It's that mentality syndrome which is one of the problems. So its very difficult at times to weed out the genuine concerns, the concerns based on the 'typical city let us down mentality' and the 'concerns but met well with the right positives'.

When fans start to look over their shoulder (Spurs) instead of ahead (Utd), then of course, whatever the real target was, they rightly will consider some of the other concerns, which were brushed under the carpet a while back. Patience is key, but at the same time, being honest on here, and discussing genuine positives and negatives, is fair.
 
There will always be a huge elephant in the room as long as we have money and Jose Mourinho wants to manage in England.

Let's cut the chase. Mancini is currently unable to convince significant cross-sections of our support.

And further large cross-sections of our support would not hesitate to welcome Jose.

I do wonder how contentious Mancini's reign would be if Jose was not always in the background?

I certainly wouldn't be prepared to accept anyone else, it's Mancini or only Jose.

Possibly the same dilemma which has afflicted our owners since they arrived?
 
BillyShears said:
Lancet Fluke said:
I don't mind negativity, I am by my very nature quite a negative and pessimistic person tbh. However, I have been surprised by the level of negativity recently. For instance, I think Didsbury Dave was giving his view of how terrible everything has been since the turn of the year. To me it was like he has been watching a different team. I accept it hasn't been great but it has been a million miles away from terrible. We have taken 8 points from 5 matches since the turn of the year, ok not great but if that is our bad run, it is not a desperately bad run. Yes , it is "a crossroad" now in as much as the next few weeks are crucial (aren't they always) but I think we can win on Saturday, get a draw at united and beat Fulham. We'll probably also get through to the 5th round of the cup and to the next round in Europe in that time. I accept any title challenge is over now, which is disappointing but I do think we are playing for 3rd or 4th and if we get either of those positions (which I think we will) then it would take a particularly perverse perspective to say that isn't progress on finishing 5th last season.

You're absolutely right. We all have our own perspective. If we finish 3rd or 4th this season that is without question progress. Bringing the cup in, IMO, is a little disingenuous. We all know it's CL or bust this season...and more importantly, last season we sacked a manager because the CL was on and that manager was seemingly letting it slip...

I get a lot of shit for being apparently 'pro Hughes/Mourinho' and 'anti Mancini'....this i what I posted just before Roberto got the job...

BillyShears said:
That post is flawed on so many levels. Firstly, whether Hughes is sacked tomorrow, or in the summer, nobody can say he wasn't given a fair crack of the whip by our owners. In fact, it beggars belief that anyone would suggest Hughes hasn't been given a chance. He has been given resources which are unprecedented, on top of that, he chose to use those resources signing experienced premiership players so there was no period of adaptation required. Just hit the ground running. In theory anyway...

As for the Mancini v Mourinho argument. Again, flawed, flawed, flawed. I actually laughed out loud at the "UEFA cup under Hughes, with Mourinho to follow, or Chumps League with Mancini..." IMO, it's borderline delusional to think that next summer Mourinho will take over City if we are not playing CL football. For exactly the same reasons, that we won't sign Messi or Torres...so it's either Mourinho in Jan, or not at all. And with the way the CL draw has just happened, I'd hazard a guess as to not at all...

You seem to be arguing that Hughes may not be good enough, but we should give him the rest of the season because...well, just because it would mean our owners are stand up guys. No thanks. I'd rather our owners were ruthless and wanted what is best for the club.

And here's what I posted after Roberto got the job...

BillyShears said:
If Mourinho REALLY wanted to come to City he'd have come in the summer gone when Inter sold Ibra and replaced him with Eto'o...

If the club REALLY wanted JM, then they'd have left Hughes in charge for the rest of the season regardless. Hell, they could even have given him the new contract he desperately wanted...granted it would have cost them a few extra million if they wanted JM in the summer, but it would've ensure stability for the rest of this season...

Mancini is incredibly well connected in Italy. If JM is so nailed on, Mancini would not have taken this job as there can't be anything more humiliating than having the same manager take your job twice in four years...

All in all though - who gives a fuck, except those who are intent on wreaking some kind of lame revenge on MCFC for sacking Saint Mark Hughes.

Onwards and upwards under Roberto Mancini if you ask me...he can be our special one...

I want what is best for MCFC. Nothing more and nothing less. I will hazard a guess that 90% (DD included) of the so called "anti Mancini brigade" just want what is best for the club and posted similar things when he was appointed.


I wouldn't for one minute question whether you or Dave want what is best for City. I know you do as does, I like to think, pretty much everyone on here. You're right, we all have our own perspective, my concern is that over the last few days all perspective seems to have been lost and some kind of mass hysteria seems to have taken hold which doesn't seem to reflect the reality of either our position in the league or our performances. Of course there are concerns, our form has dipped a bit but personally, I don't think it is helpful to declare that the season has come off the rails until it actually has. Of course it may come off the rails but equally we may beat WBA and beat Fulham, we may even get something at united. If we fuck up in all those games, I'll worry, if we get at least 6 points (which I think we will and don't think that is being overly optimistic) then we'll still be in a healthy position as far as CL qualification goes. Also, it wasn't remotely disingenuous to mention the cups. Of course I know CL qualification is all important. But it is relevant that we are still involved in 2 cup competitions as well as still being in the CL places.
 

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