Forget Recriminations, how do we sort this mess out?

[blueinsa]

More chance of seeing me in the blue shirt mate than seeing SWP again i think and i stand by my opinion that we are weaker, not just in terms of what certain players could offer but also in numbers.

We are still in 3 comps and with Bobby's willingness to utilise the rotation policy as much as possible, certain players will get a little less time off between now and the end of May than they otherwise might have done.

Shipping them out was not the problem, not replacing them was and the kids will not be the answer at the moment either, way too much pressure and way too much at stake.

I think we actually agree with eachother. Getting rid of the players was not a problem, nor was it a bad decision, and it has not made us weaker. It has left us almost exactly the same in terms of players who genuinely have a contribution to make on the pitch - rather than just occasionally sitting on the bench, and being paid £100k a week for the privilege.

The problem was in not strengthening the team to give us more options of a better quality than those we had in the first half of the season. Although there is only really Chelsea who have strengthened for the immendiate future out of the top 6 sides.

Arsenal and the Rags bought no-one in January.

Tottenham signed Pienaar, who is a decent player, but nowt special. Certainly not worth suddenly getting concerned about.

Liverpool replaced Torres with Suarez. It will be a couple of months before they can play Carroll due to him getting pissed up and falling off a barstool.

So Chelsea are the ones who really pushed on in January with Torres and Luiz, and this will probably see them overtake us.

This is the problem for me. We could have strengthened to push on as Chelsea did, but we've actually just stayed the same. This was a missed opportunity.

Agreed.

 

[Marvin]

More chance of seeing me in the blue shirt mate than seeing SWP again i think and i stand by my opinion that we are weaker, not just in terms of what certain players could offer but also in numbers.

We are still in 3 comps and with Bobby's willingness to utilise the rotation policy as much as possible, certain players will get a little less time off between now and the end of May than they otherwise might have done.

Shipping them out was not the problem, not replacing them was and the kids will not be the answer at the moment either, way too much pressure and way too much at stake.

I think we actually agree with eachother. Getting rid of the players was not a problem, nor was it a bad decision, and it has not made us weaker. It has left us almost exactly the same in terms of players who genuinely have a contribution to make on the pitch - rather than just occasionally sitting on the bench, and being paid £100k a week for the privilege.

The problem was in not strengthening the team to give us more options of a better quality than those we had in the first half of the season. Although there is only really Chelsea who have strengthened for the immendiate future out of the top 6 sides.

Arsenal and the Rags bought no-one in January.

Tottenham signed Pienaar, who is a decent player, but nowt special. Certainly not worth suddenly getting concerned about.

Liverpool replaced Torres with Suarez. It will be a couple of months before they can play Carroll due to him getting pissed up and falling off a barstool.

So Chelsea are the ones who really pushed on in January with Torres and Luiz, and this will probably see them overtake us.

This is the problem for me. We could have strengthened to push on as Chelsea did, but we've actually just stayed the same. This was a missed opportunity.

You forgot about Dzeko?

Chelsea bought Torres, but he is not as good as Drogba or Anelka. Long term he's a good buy IF he gets fit as he will replace one of these two who will be 33, and 32 in March.

Not a great idea buying foreign players in the transfer window as it takes time for them to adapt. We've seen this with almost every signing we've made over the last 2 years.

You can't just keep buying players. At some point you have to back the ones you've got. It strikes me that there'd be a bit more support for the some of the struggling players if the pile of money was a big smaller, and every player, and manager come to that, was compared to the best in he world. There's a corrosive side to being able to buy the best, because every player is immediately compared to the best.

 

[Nicholas van Whatsisface]

I think we actually agree with eachother. Getting rid of the players was not a problem, nor was it a bad decision, and it has not made us weaker. It has left us almost exactly the same in terms of players who genuinely have a contribution to make on the pitch - rather than just occasionally sitting on the bench, and being paid £100k a week for the privilege.

The problem was in not strengthening the team to give us more options of a better quality than those we had in the first half of the season. Although there is only really Chelsea who have strengthened for the immendiate future out of the top 6 sides.

Arsenal and the Rags bought no-one in January.

Tottenham signed Pienaar, who is a decent player, but nowt special. Certainly not worth suddenly getting concerned about.

Liverpool replaced Torres with Suarez. It will be a couple of months before they can play Carroll due to him getting pissed up and falling off a barstool.

So Chelsea are the ones who really pushed on in January with Torres and Luiz, and this will probably see them overtake us.

This is the problem for me. We could have strengthened to push on as Chelsea did, but we've actually just stayed the same. This was a missed opportunity.

You forgot about Dzeko?

Chelsea bought Torres, but he is not as good as Drogba or Anelka. Long term he's a good buy IF he gets fit as he will replace one of these two who will be 33, and 32 in March.

Not a great idea buying foreign players in the transfer window as it takes time for them to adapt. We've seen this with almost every signing we've made over the last 2 years.

You can't just keep buying players. At some point you have to back the ones you've got. It strikes me that there'd be a bit more support for the some of the struggling players if the pile of money was a big smaller, and every player, and manager come to that, was compared to the best in he world. There's a corrosive side to being able to buy the best, because every player is immediately compared to the best.

Nah - didn't forget the Bosnian Diamond mate. Me and blueinsa were just having a conversation about whether letting players go in January had weakened us or not, and I had stated that Dzeko essentially replaced Ade in our squad - much like Suarez at Liverpool - so we were more or less the same in terms of players on the pitch. This was why I didn't mention him. Have a quick read back mate ;)

I know we can't keep on buying players - absolutely. I was just saying we more or less stayed the same in January, when there was an opportunity to push on as Chelsea did, which will probably see them overtake us.

I do believe we will buy in the summer, when Vieira, Ade, SWP, RSC, Bridge and a couple of others are shipped out. Mid season is not the time for major upheavals, and we would need to get those players off the books permanently with the FFPR rules coming in.

 

[jay_mcfc]

There is a time where you have to back your players but as a squad, no matter how much we've spent, we are not there yet. This is proven by the release of Bellamy, Ade, Bridge, RSC etc. Mancini does not trust any of those players and whilst we have players like Jo and Vieira as well as contentious squad members such as SWP and Lescott. Then when you look at the first team and I reckon all things considered 3/4 of the first team would be changed in an idea world.

Until we sign another 3/4 players in the Silva/Yaya/Balotelli mode I don't think Mancini will have 100% trust in who or how he plays.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

You forgot about Dzeko?

Chelsea bought Torres, but he is not as good as Drogba or Anelka. Long term he's a good buy IF he gets fit as he will replace one of these two who will be 33, and 32 in March.

Not a great idea buying foreign players in the transfer window as it takes time for them to adapt. We've seen this with almost every signing we've made over the last 2 years.

You can't just keep buying players. At some point you have to back the ones you've got. It strikes me that there'd be a bit more support for the some of the struggling players if the pile of money was a big smaller, and every player, and manager come to that, was compared to the best in he world. There's a corrosive side to being able to buy the best, because every player is immediately compared to the best.

Nah - didn't forget the Bosnian Diamond mate. Me and blueinsa were just having a conversation about whether letting players go in January had weakened us or not, and I had stated that Dzeko essentially replaced Ade in our squad - much like Suarez at Liverpool - so we were more or less the same in terms of players on the pitch. This was why I didn't mention him. Have a quick read back mate ;)

I know we can't keep on buying players - absolutely. I was just saying we more or less stayed the same in January, when there was an opportunity to push on as Chelsea did, which will probably see them overtake us.

I do believe we will buy in the summer, when Vieira, Ade, SWP, RSC, Bridge and a couple of others are shipped out. Mid season is not the time for major upheavals, and we would need to get those players off the books permanently with the FFPR rules coming in.

Is it thought that Mancini made the decision not to bring in further reinforcements in January or was it a club decision that once we had bought Dzeko, that was enough?

 

[Anonymous]

Without wanting to bring more abuse on Jo's shoulders, I don't think he is half as bad as people make out. I am sure he'd prefer to start up front, but I prefer him on the left than SWP. And Bellamy's is injured too often now to rely on. Pointless discussion comparing him to players who are not available, but I can't think of better alternatives to Jo as a left-sided forward. That's why he remains on the fringes of the team. And if City fans would get behind him instead of sneering at him then they'd see a much better player. Confidence is such a key part of football. He should be looking forward each week to pulling on that blue shirt at Eastlands and getting a touch on the ball, but like many City players before him I think he tries his best, but knows he's surrounded by doubters.

Well said Marvin. Jo was a stellar star for CSKA, a truly great striker but he's been sidelined for ages and knocked silly by some of the 'fans'. He's actually a great guy, never says a word against City or the fans regardless of the abuse he's received for so long.
He keeps his head down and works hard - if we could give him the support his application deserves then we may see his confidence return and that would be something very special.
It's up to us and while I do expect the knockers (undercover rags?) to try to keep pulling him down I think that the truly loyal fans (the fanatics) will back the managers choice and start to offer some encouragement to the guy. . . both good for him and good for us eh?

 

[blueinsa]

Nah - didn't forget the Bosnian Diamond mate. Me and blueinsa were just having a conversation about whether letting players go in January had weakened us or not, and I had stated that Dzeko essentially replaced Ade in our squad - much like Suarez at Liverpool - so we were more or less the same in terms of players on the pitch. This was why I didn't mention him. Have a quick read back mate ;)

I know we can't keep on buying players - absolutely. I was just saying we more or less stayed the same in January, when there was an opportunity to push on as Chelsea did, which will probably see them overtake us.

I do believe we will buy in the summer, when Vieira, Ade, SWP, RSC, Bridge and a couple of others are shipped out. Mid season is not the time for major upheavals, and we would need to get those players off the books permanently with the FFPR rules coming in.

Is it thought that Mancini made the decision not to bring in further reinforcements in January or was it a club decision that once we had bought Dzeko, that was enough?

The $64,000 question mate and the answer would go a long way to settling the suspicion that has arisen once more about the whole Mancini/Mourinho debate.

Non stop talk that we has a club had every intention of bidding for the likes of Torres and Luiz yet when push came to shove, nothing!

Strange one for me to say the least.

 

[Nicholas van Whatsisface]

Nah - didn't forget the Bosnian Diamond mate. Me and blueinsa were just having a conversation about whether letting players go in January had weakened us or not, and I had stated that Dzeko essentially replaced Ade in our squad - much like Suarez at Liverpool - so we were more or less the same in terms of players on the pitch. This was why I didn't mention him. Have a quick read back mate ;)

I know we can't keep on buying players - absolutely. I was just saying we more or less stayed the same in January, when there was an opportunity to push on as Chelsea did, which will probably see them overtake us.

I do believe we will buy in the summer, when Vieira, Ade, SWP, RSC, Bridge and a couple of others are shipped out. Mid season is not the time for major upheavals, and we would need to get those players off the books permanently with the FFPR rules coming in.

Is it thought that Mancini made the decision not to bring in further reinforcements in January or was it a club decision that once we had bought Dzeko, that was enough?

My interpretation was that Dzeko was the target for January, and once we got him, we were happy with what we had.

AJ's injury late in the month changed this, and we then decided we needed another winger - but this was too late to bring someone in having done no groundwork with any players due to our aim of just bringing in Dzeko in January.

We tried for a short-term loan, but no-one wanted to bite due to there being too little time left to find a replacement. Consequently we have found ourselves short due to AJ's injury, which coupled with Balo's injury has left us looking more than a little one-dimensional of late.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

probably get some stick for this but here goes.

The most successful team over the last 15 years is the rags,they play a system that wins games,they play attacking football, if we want to be as successful as them we need to do the same,copy whatever they are doing(according to most on here we have better players).

You are quite right, however, and more importantly you have forgotten to mention the previous 8 or 9 years Ferguson was given to produce that system.

You accused me of being on LSD last night, but the tide needs time.

 

[Damocles]

Damocles you've summed it up perfectly. What is important for City is to win titles and challenge consistently for the top honours both on the continent and at home. Mancini will do this even if it isn't this season. The money has brought about a complete lack of patience to the point where a draw away at a very tough place is looked up on as some kind of disaster.

Third and still very much part of two cups is a good position for us to be in at this stage.

Thats a reasonable stance to take mate but let me ask you this, lets say it takes 3/4/5 years for Bobby to win the league? Great we all say, lets face it, we would have bitten somebodies hand off if offered that a few years ago but lets also look at our club as a business, one that just has to start making serious money almost immediately if we are to really start eating at the top table of football for years to come.

That sort of cash will only come from winning nearly everything out there and fast.

FFPR as ensured that a 10 year plan and the patience needed has gone out of the window and it has to be speeded up, hence the huge spend and incredible amount of players in in the last 2 seasons.

Time just will not wait no matter how much we want it to.

We will pass the FFPR easily, without winning the league or the Champions League due to the various loopholes already found in the system. I sat down and did a comprehensive post about this a while back, but I'm not sure if I ever posted it here. Long story short, if we continue our current growth and we do reach the FFPR, due to the way that the regulations work and the CL is structured, we will have no problem at all passing it.

If we remove that as an obstacle, I don't see why we can't wait 3/4/5 years for the title, apart from inpatience