Friedrich Engels statue

..absolutely.. it is nonsense to vilify communism on body count alone when the alternatives have produced more indirect fatalities. It's just weird. Some ideas are worse than others but the idea capitalism is some how superior to communism isn't a black and white answer... at best.
 
..absolutely.. it is nonsense to vilify communism on body count alone when the alternatives have produced more indirect fatalities. It's just weird. Some ideas are worse than others but the idea capitalism is some how superior to communism isn't a black and white answer... at best.

Who's said capitalism is superior to communism?

They are both inherently flawed

I just don't want a statue in my city of a man who promoted 'human regeneration' and who's ideology inspired Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge and Lenin to murder anyone who disagreed with them
 
Karl Marx himself said it was necessary to kill a large segment of the population in order to attain the basic objective of Communism..

'You must, therefore, confess that by "individual" you mean no other person than the bourgeois, than the middle-class owner of property. This person must indeed, be swept out of the way, and made impossible..'
Nowhere there does he say they're to be killed.
 
Who's said capitalism is superior to communism?

They are both inherently flawed

I just don't want a statue in my city of a man who promoted 'human regeneration' and who's ideology inspired Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge and Lenin to murder anyone who disagreed with them

Ok, well all I can say is that it is incredibly myopic of you. Who he inspired wasn't his fault, we live in times where misinterpretation causes untold misery. 'For the worker' / the masses, is a noble thing. Argue his ideas by all means, no doubt they aren't perfect, but getting upset because (in your eyes) he was a catalyst for lunatic dictators to employ regimes of horror, is stretching it.. I don't care for statues, but if this is why he is unworthy of one is trivial to say the least. If he recognized you have to break a some eggs to create a better cake then that's just common sense.
 
I think you are mixing up totalitarianism which is what the 20th century had in different periods and still exists now.

Becoming a communist or even to some small degree a facist (in the roman sense) doesn't mean you necessarly become totalitarian, which hitler, franco, stalin, pol pot etc were.

Edit. just to make clear I am refering to facism as was first referenced during early century AD which was more about church and state control over the HRE, not mussolinis ambrosian modern take which franco embraced which was totalitarian.
What reference? You might trace the symbol of fascism back to the Romans. You can't trace fascism back to the Romans.
 
What reference? You might trace the symbol of fascism back to the Romans. You can't trace fascism back to the Romans.

The concept of facism was a state that completely controlled every aspect of life, first conceived in the early 1900's Italy by murriatti, mussolini and oviletti heavily influenced by how the Roman empire and then Holy Roman Empire had organised itslef as a single authoroty controlling everything.

Some historians now class Rome as the first version of a facist system, hence why I used it as an example to point out that if you contrast the various states of the Roman empire/repiblic, it wasn't always totalitarian.

Their is agumemts that it wasn't but I decided to use it anyway.

Fascism that was conceived (and first refered to as this) in Italy early 20th Century relies on a totalitarian state being imposed as does falangism and nazism.

The Point was Totalitarianosm is the problem here and communism has been used by dictators , you cannot blame Engels for what happened 27 years after he died by cunts like Starlin, as much as you can't blame the first writer of the bible in the 4th century for the crusades, salem witch trials, etc.
 
''Karl Marx was a notorious cadger who never really worked for a living, and never set foot in a factory.''
I knew a couple of commies in my youth who fit this category perfectly.


Mark steel lectures paints very good picture of him a womanising, bone idle pisspot at times, who would borrow money from Engels frequently





Anyway Engels was heavily influenced by Mary Burns who he had a relationship with (as well as her sister after marys death), who took him into tge slums of Little Ireland and Angel Meadows, which as a well off industrialist he never really ventured to.
I am sure that to a young idealist seeing the slum conditions and squalour first hand directed his writing
 
The concept of facism was a state that completely controlled every aspect of life, first conceived in the early 1900's Italy by murriatti, mussolini and oviletti heavily influenced by how the Roman empire and then Holy Roman Empire had organised itslef as a single authoroty controlling everything.

Some historians now class Rome as the first version of a facist system, hence why I used it as an example to point out that if you contrast the various states of the Roman empire/repiblic, it wasn't always totalitarian.

Their is agumemts that it wasn't but I decided to use it anyway.

Fascism that was conceived (and first refered to as this) in Italy early 20th Century relies on a totalitarian state being imposed as does falangism and nazism.

The Point was Totalitarianosm is the problem here and communism has been used by dictators , you cannot blame Engels for what happened 27 years after he died by cunts like Starlin, as much as you can't blame the first writer of the bible in the 4th century for the crusades, salem witch trials, etc.
Getting off topic a bit, but the Bible written in the 4th century?
 

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