General Election - 4th July 2024

Who will you be voting for in the General Election?

  • Labour

    Votes: 235 59.6%
  • Conservative

    Votes: 11 2.8%
  • Liberal Democrat

    Votes: 32 8.1%
  • Reform

    Votes: 53 13.5%
  • Green Party

    Votes: 22 5.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 41 10.4%

  • Total voters
    394
If nobody was willing to work then how can we justify increased taxation and increased infrastructure spending? Why should anybody work full time and pay tax versus somebody who chooses not to work, pays no tax and takes from the system?
Because working full time and paying tax means you will be better off than someone not working and not paying tax (with very few exceptions).

The lauded so called socialist system unfortunately demands participation from everybody.

And "from each according to their ability" is a bad thing because...?

I keep hearing the same crap from the left about how companies are making wild profits however the country is barely growing so where are these profits? Now is a really tough time for businesses and to grow they need more people so it has never been a better time to negotiate better conditions and many are doing just that.

Profits go to shareholders (a lot of whom are "economically inactive" because they're living off investments).

If a rising element of the UK population is not prepared to work then immigration and certainly the positive aspects of immigration will come to become the most important topic of our times. This isn't because of ideology but because it's absolutely necessary. This itself drives wages down but then what else can we expect?
Then the only problem is the ones who are not prepared to work but don't like immigration.
 
Because working full time and paying tax means you will be better off than someone not working and not paying tax (with very few exceptions).



And "from each according to their ability" is a bad thing because...?



Profits go to shareholders (a lot of whom are "economically inactive" because they're living off investments).


Then the only problem is the ones who are not prepared to work but don't like immigration.
I'm sorry but this is bollocks. Profits do not go to shareholders, dividends go to shareholders. Not every company is a public company either btw.

If every company divested all of its profits into dividend payments then it is impossible that they can expand or grow.

Public companies also cannot grow without shareholders because in the absence of large profits it is impossible to grow without capital, that capital is provided by investors. Shareholders are not leeches, they're capital providers.

Also ask yourself this, do you have a pension? If you do then there's a strong chance that you yourself are a dirty shareholder. You could choose to morally relinquish your pension value of course but I won't hold my breath.
 
If nobody was willing to work then how can we justify increased taxation and increased infrastructure spending? Why should anybody work full time and pay tax versus somebody who chooses not to work, pays no tax and takes from the system? The lauded so called socialist system unfortunately demands participation from everybody.
Sort of correct,that Socialism demands participation from everyone, here is an explanation that i have cobbled together thanks to Jacobin and The Socialist Workers Party.

Every hour worked is an hour that can never be retrieved. It’s also an hour from which economic elites profit, and they are not sharing those profits. The ideology that places a premium on “work ethic” helps keep this unequal system in place. It shames workers for being lazy if they register an objection to how hard or long they’re expected to work, and it also rewards workers with a sense of pride if they spend their days making profits for somebody else without grumbling (think of that pride as a sort of consolation prize). It therefore benefits a tiny wealthy minority at the expense of the vast majority of people.

We should dispense with “work ethic” as it’s currently understood, and we should replace it with something way better: taking pride in and deriving meaning from the nature of our work itself, not from the mere ability to perform it without complaining.


Under capitalism, lots of workers hate their jobs, but they have to perform them anyway in order to afford the basic necessities of life. Karl Marx was concerned about the way that capitalism "alienates" labour or turns the worker into a drone detached from the goods they’re producing or services they’re rendering, with no control over how they spend the majority of their waking hours and no clear sense of purpose. Marx concluded that alienation of labor is a natural consequence of a system where work is allocated not based on what society needs but on what’s profitable for a few. Under capitalism, everything firms do is to make money — and that’s it. The result is a proliferation of jobs that are as socially useless as they are demanding, and billions of people around the world performing those jobs with no input or sense of connection to the work itself.

Socialists propose to completely change the nature of work. In a truly democratic socialist society, no longer would anyone be allowed to make a profit without lifting a finger themselves and to use their wealth and power to set the terms and conditions of everybody else’s workday. Instead, people would come together democratically to decide what kind of society they want to see — what needs should be met, what problems ought to be solved — and would work backward from that to identify what kind of work needs to be done to make our collective dreams a reality.

This society would then empower democratically accountable planning agencies to figure out how to go about training and attracting people to these jobs. Once hired, workers would have the ability to make decisions collectively about how firms operate, including how much they internally compensate for what type of work. This would be much less chaotic and more logical than the current arrangement, where the vast majority of decisions about the economy and production are made by people with wealth who are driven by the sole ambition of acquiring more wealth. It would also be much more empowering to workers themselves, who would truly operate like a team — a feeling that corporations today try hard to mimic management cliche.


Of course there will be work under socialism — though surely less of it — and we want people to feel motivated to perform it and to take pride in it. But rather than guilting workers into breaking their backs for somebody else’s profit and castigating them for not finding that particularly fulfilling, we should endeavor to deliberately create an economic and political system that motivates workers by empowering them as decision-makers, both in the civic sphere and in the workplace.

Our goal should be to foster a whole new type of “work ethic,” one that doesn’t just translate to grin-and-bear-it stamina, but instead to a hunger for active participation and avenues to exercise agency. Under democratic socialism, workers would not only be able to explain how their work contributes to society, but also endeavor to make change if they find the rationales insufficient — pathways that are completely blocked for most workers today.

Considerations about people’s relationship to work need not turn people off socialism. On the contrary, they ought to excite people about socialism’s potential. Under capitalism, too many people are simply biding their time, watching the clock, working for the weekend. We can have a new type of society, one in which people work not just to survive while the bosses live in luxury, but in which we work to meet our collective needs instead — and find much greater fulfillment in the process.

A socialist society would be one where items are produced because they are needed, rather than because they are profitable.

It would mean an end to a system where millions of people struggle to make ends meet while the rich sit on piles on money.

Ordinary people would collectively own big industries, services and banks—and decide democratically how to use the Earth’s resources.

The Labour party isn’t a vehicle for bringing about socialism. Its strategy is focused on reforming capitalism through parliament, rather than overthrowing the system entirely. Real power doesn’t lie in parliament. It lies with unelected bankers and big businesses, who use it to pressure governments.

Above is the kind of politics that those with Capital seek to hide from society as it will affect their individual wealth and that protection stops us all developing as human beings and enjoying life in a more fruitful manner.
 
I said "Profits go to shareholders". Where do dividends come out of?
It implies that all profits go to shareholders for the benefit of shareholders which is untrue. Yes a portion of profits are paid to shareholders (but not always!) but not every shareholder is a non-dom sleazy tax exile.

Shareholders in companies are predominately major capital investors, pension funds and the employees themselves. The last two you'd certainly say have an interest in maximising their shareholding returns.
 

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