General Election - 4th July 2024

[metalblue]

Tories clambering to suggest Starmer will switch off at 1800 each Friday is embarrassingly childish. Their desperation is palpable

Wait until he joins Unison to get better pay and work conditions.

 

[jim tolmies perm]

As a non Labour voter with no skin in the game one thing I can say which is 99% guaranteed is that Labour will not be worse than the last few Tory govts. Its almost impossible tbh.
Post Cameron we have had the worst govt in living memory it would take something to top that.

I truly believe there can only be progress, in whatever small , incremental steps that a royally fucked up economy can allow.
As a non-gambling person I would wager a tenner that we will not suffer 14 years of complete and utter regression

 

[bluenova]

I was reacting to the strength of your argument actually.

Labour putting that in their manifesto without clarifying how they’re going to actually address the issue is about as meaningful as Miss World contestants saying they’re going to achieve world peace.

Since the end of 2019 there’s been a roughy one million increase in inactivity for people of working age. Three quarters of that increase is people on long-term sick, while the number of people retiring early on private pensions - mentioned by some on here - has actually gone down.

That long-term sick number could reduce if NHS treatments can increase- not rocket science - but I would think that readdressing how people are classified as being able to work or not should also be a priority and I would be very sceptical about Labour doing that.

Most interestingly, however, the ONS also ask inactive people whether they actually want to work, as well as why they are inactive. And since the end of 2019 the number of inactive people who say they don’t want to work has in fact increased by well over a million.

So I would think it’s quite difficult to suggest that there hasn’t been a change in the willingness of people to go out to work, and that’s the issue that needs to be addressed.

So, you'd want an acknowledgement that inactivity is being strongly driven by health, perhaps even with a focus on mental health? So, you'd want NHS treatments sped up? How about Work Capability Assessments being replaced with a system that focuses on getting people into jobs, rather than simply pushing people from sickness benefits onto unemployment benefits.

If only Labour had thought about sprinkling a little of that gold dust in their manifesto, rather than going all Miss World and just putting in the contents headings.

Sounds to me like you're fed up of the inaction of the current Government, and need to vote for change on Thursday.

Welcome to Labour Brewster.

 

[East Level 2]

Tories clambering to suggest Starmer will switch off at 1800 each Friday is embarrassingly childish. Their desperation is palpable

Are these Tories related to the Tories that were happy with Johnson being a part-time Prime Minister?

 

[hilts]

I truly believe there can only be progress, in whatever small , incremental steps that a royally fucked up economy can allow.
As a non-gambling person I would wager a tenner that we will not suffer 14 years of complete and utter regression

I think come Friday some will be Joyful of a Labour govt. Personally I will be just relieved the Tories have gone. There will be no excitement for the future though which is a shame.

 

[bluenova]

I think come Friday some will be Joyful of a Labour govt. Personally I will be just relieved the Tories have gone. There will be no excitement for the future though which is a shame.

What kind of specific policies would make you excited? Genuine question - would be nice to hear something positive -and don't worry, I won't reply with, "but Labour are planning to do that" ;)

 

[Vic]

This is a forum that tolerates different opinions. Perhaps it isn’t for you if that offends your sensitivities?

Gosh. Getting precious about not being precious!

 

[Vic]

Most of the welfare state is state pensions.
Another massive chunk goes to working people to subsidise inadequate wages and excessive rents. (I'm quite up for not subsidising bad employers and greedy landlords, but are the Tories?)
Another chunk goes on disability benefits, including those paid to disabled people in work. (You can claim PI and work if you qualify, and as it is (rightly) not means-tested you could be the MD of a FTSE 100 company in theory.)
What people go on about is the money given to long-term unemployed, and that is petty cash in the scheme of things. If it was stopped tomorrow, I doubt you'd get 10p off your tax. But you would get a whole lot of extra crime in exchange.

(EDIT) Forgot to point out that the 'economically inactive' includes full-time students and all those people over 55 who have retired on private pensions, and don't need to work anymore as they have enough to carry them through to state pension age and beyond. These people aren't going to work unless you seize their assets.

I suspect they know who is "economically inactive" but they really are thinking of the British citizens who don't want to get up at 5 a.m. to be bussed to a field in the middle of nowhere to pick the veg that the EU migrants used to do.

 

[Vic]

....

That long-term sick number could reduce if NHS treatments can increase- not rocket science - but I would think that readdressing how people are classified as being able to work or not should also be a priority and I would be very sceptical about Labour doing that.#

Colour me surprised.

Most interestingly, however, the ONS also ask inactive people whether they actually want to work, as well as why they are inactive. And since the end of 2019 the number of inactive people who say they don’t want to work has in fact increased by well over a million....

If you asked "economically active" people in work, how many would say they don't want to work?

 

[inbetween]

Maybe employers need to offer better pay and conditions. Anyone who believes in the market should see that as the obvious driver.

When I retired early I no longer needed to work and it would have taken big bucks to get me back into another poxy office, that I can tell you. And I mean big bucks.

Covid was revolutionary. It taught people a) they could live on less and b) that work is not all that life is about.

Real pay in many sectors has dropped significantly during this government's rule. So it's small wonder if fewer people want to work. It might be an interesting academic exercise to tease out all the reasons behind the change though.

In my view, one factor is that many employers treat their employees with what is little short of contempt. Loyalty cuts both ways. Always has, always will.

If nobody was willing to work then how can we justify increased taxation and increased infrastructure spending? Why should anybody work full time and pay tax versus somebody who chooses not to work, pays no tax and takes from the system? The lauded so called socialist system unfortunately demands participation from everybody.

I keep hearing the same crap from the left about how companies are making wild profits however the country is barely growing so where are these profits? Now is a really tough time for businesses and to grow they need more people so it has never been a better time to negotiate better conditions and many are doing just that.

Ifa rising element of the UK population is not prepared to work then immigration and certainly the positive aspects of immigration will come to become the most important topic of our times. This isn't because of ideology but because it's absolutely necessary. This itself drives wages down but then what else can we expect?